Sabbath Day

[Bbrdrd]

I sure DO as you say twist it in order to keep "my" (not the Lord's?) sabbath keeping law. I do not write scripture. Scripture tells us that all scripture is truth. If scripture is read as contradicting itself it is in our misunderstanding, for God does not disagree with God. It is up to us to see the real meaning.

I don't see why that my thinking that God established the Sabbath for our benefit disagrees with that God made Sabbath for our benefit. God blessed this special day for our sakes, and blessing is for our benefit.

I cannot understand why the church is so opposed to the writing of Genesis. They accept that God created us and our world, and get up on arms because God blessed a day for us. Why?

The issue is not the keeping of the Sabbath, nor that it is a blessed day. The issue is treating it as a matter of law which insists on law-keeping to please God.

Keeping the Sabbath can be a great pleasure and great joy, but keeping it as law is returning to slavery and treating the blood of Christ as an unholy thing.

It's why I said in my initial post in this thread many fail to understand why Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice," and that understanding what He meant by that should change our whole relationship with the very idea of law.

 

[Blik]

The issue is not the keeping of the Sabbath, nor that it is a blessed day. The issue is treating it as a matter of law which insists on law-keeping to please God.

Keeping the Sabbath can be a great pleasure and great joy, but keeping it as law is returning to slavery and treating the blood of Christ as an unholy thing.

It's why I said in my initial post in this thread many fail to understand why Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice," and that understanding what He meant by that should change our whole relationship with the very idea of law.

I so agree. The real issue is not at all how we live on the Sabbath day, but if we believe in the word of the Lord or don't.

The issue is also about keeping the law. Are we doing this to please the Lord? I don't think this is what Christ and Paul teaches. They say we should repent of our sin, give it is Christ for forgiveness, and accept the ways of Christ as part of us. Christ gives fruits of the spirit when we accept him. That results in our following the law, but a cold statement of following the law does not explain it as we are told.

You can follow the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. When we accept following law in spirit the results can be seen in our actions.

How we look at the Sabbath is only one tiny part of all this.

 

[posthuman]

Keeping the Sabbath

If we're not keeping it according to the letter of the law can we truly say we're 'keeping it' since it's the law that defines how to keep it?

 

[Bbrdrd]

If we're not keeping it according to the letter of the law can we truly say we're 'keeping it' since it's the law that defines how to keep it?

If we set it aside and dedicate it to seeking God's rest I would say yes. Perhaps not in the same sense that it was kept for the nation of Israel, but in the same sense we establish the law through living a life under grace.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I so agree. The real issue is not at all how we live on the Sabbath day, but if we believe in the word of the Lord or don't.

The issue is also about keeping the law. Are we doing this to please the Lord? I don't think this is what Christ and Paul teaches. They say we should repent of our sin, give it is Christ for forgiveness, and accept the ways of Christ as part of us. Christ gives fruits of the spirit when we accept him. That results in our following the law, but a cold statement of following the law does not explain it as we are told.

You can follow the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. When we accept following law in spirit the results can be seen in our actions.

How we look at the Sabbath is only one tiny part of all this.

Yes, how we look at the Sabbath is indeed one tiny part. The rest of your post I'm not sure I agree with since it depends on what you mean by some things.

What is the difference between keeping the law in letter and in Spirit in your mind?

 

[garee]

Yes, how we look at the Sabbath is indeed one tiny part. The rest of your post I'm not sure I agree with since it depends on what you mean by some things.

What is the difference between keeping the law in letter and in Spirit in your mind?

I would offer. The letter what the eyes see called the temporal as it is written .Letter of the book of law .The whole Bible. No philosophical theories as private interpretations. . Our commentaries how we think we hear when studying seeking His approval .

The letter called death must be mixed with what the eyes do not see the eternal called "faith". The law of faith . The unseen workings

2 Corinthians 4 gives us some understand how to "mix faith" together with the letter that kills .The written law of God . then we can rest form our own labor yoked with Christ.

Unlocking he mystery of faith

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Together. . .The perfect/complete law the just and the justifier made up of two working as one .Its the work of the father and Son .it works in us to both will give us his desire and empowers us to finish it .Yoked together our burden is made lighter. Apart from each other. . nothing changes nothing.

A perfect example in the beautiful Psalms 19. The just justifier. The gospel of Christ working doing its labor of love making music in our new hearts .

Psalms 19: 6-14 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.The "law of the Lord" is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

 

[posthuman]

If we set it aside and dedicate it to seeking God's rest I would say yes. Perhaps not in the same sense that it was kept for the nation of Israel, but in the same sense we establish the law through living a life under grace.

In that case it might be better for us to say we 'enter His rest' or 'remember His rest' - - thinking about the confusion caused by how the word 'tithes' is misused, the connotation of the word is all having to do with Moses law, not freely giving.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If we set it aside and dedicate it to seeking God's rest I would say yes.

Those who are in Christ are already within His rest. They do not need to seek God's rest since Christ has accomplished everything on behalf of sinners. Christians rest entirely in Christ.

The Sabbath rest of Christ is eternal, and those who have believed have ALREADY entered into His rest. And that is why the Sabbath day is called a "shadow" whereas Christ is the reality (Col 2:16,17). So when people continue to chase after shadows it is an evidence of unbelief. And that is why we have the epistle to the Hebrews.

HEBREWS 3: UNBELIEF SHUTS PEOPLE OUT OF GOD'S REST
7 Wherefore as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[lenna]

Those who are in Christ are already within His rest. They do not need to seek God's rest since Christ has accomplished everything on behalf of sinners. Christians rest entirely in Christ.

The Sabbath rest of Christ is eternal, and those who have believed have ALREADY entered into His rest. And that is why the Sabbath day is called a "shadow" whereas Christ is the reality (Col 2:16,17). So when people continue to chase after shadows it is an evidence of unbelief. And that is why we have the epistle to the Hebrews.

 

[garee]

If we set it aside and dedicate it to seeking God's rest I would say yes. Perhaps not in the same sense that it was kept for the nation of Israel, but in the same sense we establish the law through living a life under grace.

Many did not keep it properly. the word Sabbath is a non time sensitive word . Attach time destroy the meaning as a shadow . Some made it as a day of the week . as if the shadow was the substance.

The ceremonial law was a shadow of the true . A sign to the world .Not a self edifying sign to their owns self. Which many did and still do .

The law of faith the unseen work of God that works within believers as the temple of God. it works with us making our burden lighter. The law of faith must be mixed with what the eyes see and hand touches . Then we can know Christ is working his gospel of sabbath rest and we are not hardening ones heart . . our load is made lighter.

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: (No faith) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


The key is faith in the mix. along with the milk as a dash of the water of the word The sweet as honey manna mix . Don't eat to much it could build strong false pride. Some gathered little, some gather much .they all entered his green grass rest.

 

[Blik]

If we set it aside and dedicate it to seeking God's rest I would say yes. Perhaps not in the same sense that it was kept for the nation of Israel, but in the same sense we establish the law through living a life under grace.

If we live a life under grace we will love the Lord. We receive grace through faith in God and in His word. If we have faith in the rightness of His word, then we would listen to that word and follow it. It is obeying through the word, not through the flesh as only following the letter of the law but through the heart.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Those who are in Christ are already within His rest. They do not need to seek God's rest since Christ has accomplished everything on behalf of sinners. Christians rest entirely in Christ.

The Sabbath rest of Christ is eternal, and those who have believed have ALREADY entered into His rest. And that is why the Sabbath day is called a "shadow" whereas Christ is the reality (Col 2:16,17). So when people continue to chase after shadows it is an evidence of unbelief. And that is why we have the epistle to the Hebrews.

HEBREWS 3: UNBELIEF SHUTS PEOPLE OUT OF GOD'S REST
7 Wherefore as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Yes, this is true. But sometimes we need to take actual time to reflect on what it means to live in that rest. To separate ourselves from daily business and spend time enjoying God's presence in our life.

Ultimately, I think post is onto something with terminology. Choosing to set aside a day each week for reflection, meditation, and fellowship beyond what is present in our daily lives can be a huge benefit to the soul but to describe it as a "keeping" of the Sabbath may be an unfortunate sort of phrasing.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 7:6

 

[TMS]

If we have been released from the law because the law was removed, we have not sinned once. No law equals no sin.
If we are released from the consequences of the law (penalty of the law) by the blood of Jesus the law still stands but can not condemn us when we are covered by the blood of Jesus.
We are sinners today so a law must stand and we are released by the the blood of Jesus.
The law and the Spirit..... are they against each other? The law is spiritual Rom 7:14.
The Spirit is perfectly obedient to the law. If we are walking in the Spirit we are obedient to the law.
The law is love and righteousness, it was only written as 10 commandments because we needed to understand it better. It can be summed up as love. Love to God and Love to our neighbor. The Pharisees were hypocrites, which means they promoted the law but didn't keep it themselves. Jesus broke the sabbath according to the pharisees standard but Jesus kept it by Gods spiritual perfect standard.
you can tell yourself there is no law, and that would be nice because i would have no sin and not need a savior.
You can tell yourself that the law (the Ten Commandments) has changed and the sabbath command is not valid today. but it was sanctified and made holy before sin and Jesus said....
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He quotes some of the 10 commandments in verse 21, and 27

I don't get told that not taking the Lords name in vain is a works that i can forget about, i don't get told that not killing are works i can forget about but people are telling me to forget about he one command that God said to remember.
for the same reason i choose to not steal and lie i choose to remember the sabbath day.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[gb9]

If we have been released from the law because the law was removed, we have not sinned once. No law equals no sin.
If we are released from the consequences of the law (penalty of the law) by the blood of Jesus the law still stands but can not condemn us when we are covered by the blood of Jesus.
We are sinners today so a law must stand and we are released by the the blood of Jesus.
The law and the Spirit..... are they against each other? The law is spiritual Rom 7:14.
The Spirit is perfectly obedient to the law. If we are walking in the Spirit we are obedient to the law.
The law is love and righteousness, it was only written as 10 commandments because we needed to understand it better. It can be summed up as love. Love to God and Love to our neighbor. The Pharisees were hypocrites, which means they promoted the law but didn't keep it themselves. Jesus broke the sabbath according to the pharisees standard but Jesus kept it by Gods spiritual perfect standard.
you can tell yourself there is no law, and that would be nice because i would have no sin and not need a savior.
You can tell yourself that the law (the Ten Commandments) has changed and the sabbath command is not valid today. but it was sanctified and made holy before sin and Jesus said....
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He quotes some of the 10 commandments in verse 21, and 27

I don't get told that not taking the Lords name in vain is a works that i can forget about, i don't get told that not killing are works i can forget about but people are telling me to forget about he one command that God said to remember.
for the same reason i choose to not steal and lie i choose to remember the sabbath day.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

*except the Law was given to Israel only. gentiles were and are not under the Law.

God spoke to Moses in Leviticus about " the Covenant I made with the fathers of those who came out of egypt"

so, if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then you are not under that Covenant, which included the Sabbath.

 

[mailmandan]

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

I often hear SDA's cite Isaiah 66:23 in an effort to try and prove that all of God's redeemed people will keep the weekly sabbath day throughout eternity.

In regards to Isaiah 66:22-23, this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will be no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

Furthermore, if one insists on sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then one also needs to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, Sabbatarians don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moons" or "a weekly sabbath day" without day and night.

Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the sabbath day in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms?

Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.. *The old and new covenants do not mix.”

 

[mailmandan]

You can tell yourself that the law (the Ten Commandments) has changed and the sabbath command is not valid today.

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

*Show me in the New Testament where the Church is commanded to keep the sabbath day. *Read Colossians 2:16-17.

but it was sanctified and made holy....

In Genesis 2:3, we read that God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Now although God's rest on the seventh day did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

I can forget about but people are telling me to forget about he one command that God said to remember.
for the same reason i choose to not steal and lie i choose to remember the sabbath day.

Why don't you explain to us exactly how you remember or keep the sabbath day. Does it involve compliance with these specific regulations? (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31)

God's Word makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the Israelites.

Deuteronomy 5:15 - “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the sabbath day."

 

[TMS]

I often hear SDA's cite Isaiah 66:23 in an effort to try and prove that all of God's redeemed people will keep the weekly sabbath day throughout eternity.

In regards to Isaiah 66:22-23, this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will be no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
.”

you said --"this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him."
then you say --"How then could there be a cycle of seven days ". True we will continually worship Him but God chose the words from one sabbath to another. "from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." you can make it say what ever you want, so you can believe what you want.

i don't know exactly how things will work in Heaven or the new Earth and i'm not going to presume, but i will say just because the glory of God is brighter then the sun and moon does not mean there will be no sun and moon. True, there light will not be needed but they may still exist.
Rev 21:23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." what about the rest of the new earth?

 

[mailmandan]

you said --"this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him." then you say --"How then could there be a cycle of seven days." True we will continually worship Him but God chose the words from one sabbath to another. "from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." you can make it say what ever you want, so you can believe what you want.

As I previously stated, it simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. It's not about observing new moons and keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law throughout eternity in the new earth.

i don't know exactly how things will work in Heaven or the new Earth and i'm not going to presume, but i will say just because the glory of God is brighter then the sun and moon does not mean there will be no sun and moon. True, there light will not be needed but they may still exist.

So according to your logic, it's only in certain parts of the new heaven and new earth that people will observe new moons and keep the weekly sabbath under the law?

Rev 21:23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." what about the rest of the new earth?

SDA's are quick to make that argument. Why would there be no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in the city, but the rest of the earth needs it? So in the new earth the glory of God only lights the city alone?

 

[mailmandan]

I was recently in a discussion with a customer on my mail route who attends the "Worldwide Church of God" and he is absolutely obsessed with the sabbath day and has basically turned it into an idol. He told me that I need to tell my employer that I cannot work on Saturday because it's the sabbath day and if I continue to work on Saturday, then my salvation will be in jeopardy. He gave me a gospel tract from his church that states the plan of salvation as follows: Repent of sin, be baptized correctly in Jesus name and keep the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) yet NOTHING ABOUT SALVATION THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST.