Sabbath Day

[lenna]

Isn't that what the law does for us, it defines lawlessness? It is for us who are not righteous in ourselves, we are only righteous through Christ, not of our own works but through what Christ did for us.

I think the 119th psalm is relevant as it gives us what sin is all about. I think when you say that following Christ is to blindly keep rules, you are distorting scripture. Living as a follower of Christ is joyful, stress free. When you say it is only blindly keeping rules, it makes following Christ into something unattractive and it isn't.

this is more confusing than usual. in the New Testament, we study what is written through the lens of Christ's work on our behalf...perhaps you know what that would be? the cross, the burial and resurrection and ascension into heaven?

When you say it is only blindly keeping rules, it makes following Christ into something unattractive and it isn't

please

do quote where you find the above words. which post? or at least the intent of what you are stating? I can't find it so please name the post wherein you found the person you are responding to, intended what you say he intended

 

[lenna]

What concerns me is there is a different Thread where we are being told that the Gospel of Jesus is not for the Church. This Thread seems to be telling us that the Church is still under the Mosaic Laws of the Old Testament.

Somehow, I think things have gotten mixed up. Maybe the person of the Gospel is not for the Church could get together with the person who posted this Thread and work things out?

a whole new gospel that is not the gospel at all

 

[lenna]

The law tells us how we can live with joy and freedom. Sin binds us, it's claws are like clouds of darkness. When we take our sin to Christ with repentance we are not only forgiven but we are given inner help to be Christ like. It is the path to freedom.

please show that in scripture because everything I have ever read about the purpose of the law is anything BUT joy and freedom

you cannot choose which of the 10 commandments is binding and toss the other 9

please show where in scripture you are told you can do that


5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[a] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

circumcision was a sign between the Jews and God but here we read that it counts for nothing if you are in Christ

you can repent up the river and down the river but you will still sin as long as you are in the flesh and John says you are a liar if you state you have no sin. repentance does not mean being sorry if you sinned. repentance means to change your mind and agree with what God states

this creates the question of how you see sin, how you believe you are forgiven and if you think it is a fact that you are forgiven or some kind of emotional catharsis

if a person believes they must worship according to the law, then they are hardly free in Christ

 

[lenna]

Have you read the 119th Psalm? It is the longest psalm, all praising the law of the Lord. Do you think then that Paul who was of God would tell us that we are not to listen to this?

We are all sinners, and only righteous through Christ.

gee

did the writer claim Jesus as his savior and all his sins were cleansed because Jesus took his place?

no?

you seem more than a little bogged down in the OT

 

[oldethennew]

MATT. 19:18.
He saith unto him, Which?
'Jesus' said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness,
19.
Honour your father and your mother: and, you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
MATT. 5:17.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18.
For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ was evidently commanding us to KEEP HIS HOLY COMMANDMENTS, from the
least to the greatest!

if one understands the 'culture/customs' of that 'time', they already KNOW that any Rabbi,
when they are 'teaching', only mentions 'part' of the scripture, because it was expected
that the audience would know the rest of the 'text', Paul is a perfect example of this -
he quotes snippets of scripture, but one has to be familiar with the 'whole idea'
surrounding that snippet, and sometimes it can be two or three chapters, in
order to understand the complete meaning of what Paul was saying...

 

[Blik]

Come on.
Show grace and tolerance for the ignorant and deceived.
How many lies did you believe to be true at one time?
Let God be their judge and you be innocent.

Call them out on the content and the error and let God take the offense against them for you if He so desires.
For it is the kindness of God that lead us to repentance.
So lets do our best in being like our heavenly Father in that.

Do not let your own words praise you.
Which to me also means do not take up your own personal defense when insulted.
But rather try to adsorb the insults and stay focused on the work of the kingdom for the sake of those who have ears to hear.

How did you know? When I understood some of my misunderstanding I cried. I was retired, I thank the Lord, so I could spend all my time searching for the truth that is in scripture if we humbly ask.

Thank you. I so wish I could someway give scripture as all truth to everyone. God never disagrees with God.

 

[Blik]

gee

did the writer claim Jesus as his savior and all his sins were cleansed because Jesus took his place?

no?

you seem more than a little bogged down in the OT

David most certainly did give all his sins to what he knew as the Savior. It was only explained to him as that God gave blood on the altar and he was to sacrifice blood as payment for his sins, and his sins were many.

See for yourself. Read Lev. 17:11. Study the sacrificial system as it relates to sin. Christ fulfilled this system, and you can see what Christ does for us in a better way if you will study this system.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Of all the nerve, to say that quoting scripture is twisting God's words!! And you say that God's word tells us we are not made righteous through Christ, but by our own efforts!!! You have a log in your eye.

Still putting words in my mouth and falsly accusing me.

The twisting of Scripture is what you tried to say about Paul stating the law is for the lawless. Rather than taking the time to understand Paul's message in that statement you twist it to keep your Sabbath keeping law.

The issue is not that you have a high view of law as you seem to think, but that you have an impoverished view of it. You fail to understand why Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" and instead desire to keep the Sabbath as an ordinance.

 

[Blik]

and there's that false claim again

help help I am under attack




but wait...does not sound like you are hiding under a table there Blik

why are you claiming another is saying something you actually believe? you have completely twisted that post and made it your own. much like you do with scripture

you know, the Bible tells us to take the log out of our own eye before trying to move the speck out of your brother's eye

you sound apoplectic

Post 84

 

[Blik]

this is more confusing than usual. in the New Testament, we study what is written through the lens of Christ's work on our behalf...perhaps you know what that would be? the cross, the burial and resurrection and ascension into heaven?



please

do quote where you find the above words. which post? or at least the intent of what you are stating? I can't find it so please name the post wherein you found the person you are responding to, intended what you say he intended

Post 84

 

[Blik]

I am speaking about scripture and what it says, and I am not criticizing and judging people, I am trying to show you what scripture tells us if it is disagrees with a post. You are making it into a people judging, and that is not right. We are to allow people free will, and we are free to state our understanding of scripture but we are not to tear down people. If I am wrong about what scripture tells us, say so, but allow me to let the Holy Spirit speak to me and tell you what the spirit tells me. You are stating your understanding, give me the same consideration.

But I think that it is also not right to say that one scripture is opposed in any way to another scripture. Scripture is truth, all of it.

 

[Benadam]

Which to me also means do not take up your own personal defense when insulted.
But rather try to adsorb the insults and stay focused on the work of the kingdom for the sake of those who have ears to hear.

Amen! If our defense is necessary in that case God will raise a defender.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I am speaking about scripture and what it says, and I am not criticizing and judging people, I am trying to show you what scripture tells us if it is disagrees with a post. You are making it into a people judging, and that is not right. We are to allow people free will, and we are free to state our understanding of scripture but we are not to tear down people. If I am wrong about what scripture tells us, say so, but allow me to let the Holy Spirit speak to me and tell you what the spirit tells me. You are stating your understanding, give me the same consideration.

But I think that it is also not right to say that one scripture is opposed in any way to another scripture. Scripture is truth, all of it.

You didn't quote so I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, but if it is I will address it.

I gave you 3 opportunities to address Paul's words and give an understanding. Instead you justified your doctrine by explaining it away, that's twisting Scripture.

I am not people judging, I am judging your interpretation. You've maligned me several times by adding to what I have stated such as when I characterized taking the Sabbath as an ordinance because it is law as blindly following rules you maligned that by claiming I was denouncing following Christ. That is highly offensive and the exact opposite of what I claim, as I do not believe enslaving yourself to the law is following Christ.

So if you're done playing the victim the floor is yours to give an understanding of Paul's words in 1 Timothy.

 

[Blik]

You didn't quote so I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, but if it is I will address it.

I gave you 3 opportunities to address Paul's words and give an understanding. Instead you justified your doctrine by explaining it away, that's twisting Scripture.

I am not people judging, I am judging your interpretation. You've maligned me several times by adding to what I have stated such as when I characterized taking the Sabbath as an ordinance because it is law as blindly following rules you maligned that by claiming I was denouncing following Christ. That is highly offensive and the exact opposite of what I claim, as I do not believe enslaving yourself to the law is following Christ.

So if you're done playing the victim the floor is yours to give an understanding of Paul's words in 1 Timothy.

I did not know that I denounced you and claimed you denounced following Christ, or that I twist scripture. I am sorry you think it is what I do. I have tried to explain what I hear the Lord tell me in scripture best I can, I truly am sorry you feel my explanations are only personal justification, twists of scripture and inadequate. I will try again to explain what I hear from the Lord.

I hear the Lord tell me, especially in the 119th psalm, that the law is very good, it is trustworthy to lead us in how we can live for the Lord.

All scripture is truth, and it is also truth that the law tells people what is sin and what is not sin. I don't think this takes away any of what the 119th psalm tells us about it. Paul is of God, and so is David. They both speak truth. Paul tells us it is for the lawless, and because we have sin in us we cannot brag about being lawless. It is Christ in us that makes us righteous, it is Christ's doing. That means that although the law is for the lawless, we are to listen to the law. We repent of sin for we follow Christ and we give our sin to Him for forgiveness, but it is Christ's doing that we are righteous.

 

[lenna]

David most certainly did give all his sins to what he knew as the Savior. It was only explained to him as that God gave blood on the altar and he was to sacrifice blood as payment for his sins, and his sins were many.

See for yourself. Read Lev. 17:11. Study the sacrificial system as it relates to sin. Christ fulfilled this system, and you can see what Christ does for us in a better way if you will study this system.

I never mentioned David, which I am well aware of. I posted the scripture concerning Jesus walking through the cornfields with his disciples on the 'Sabbath' and the disciples picked and ate corn. Then, we have the usual Pharisaic compliment of insults...much like what you do in fact

you do not seem able to respond to what someone actually writes, but will go way out of your way with a response that has nothing whatsoever to do with the other person's post

of course I know why you do that. you do it, because you CANNOT respond to what I posted or you would have to acknowledge the error of your false beliefs

so again, I NEVER MENTIONED DAVID SO STOP DODGING THE SCRIPTURE CONCERNING JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES

this is a very dishonest tactic on your part.

one more thing though, DAVID DID NOT WRITE PSALM 119. there are different thoughts on who wrote it, but most scholars are doubtful it was David. it seems you cannot identify with anything in the New Testament and that alone is alarming

 

[lenna]

I did not know that I denounced you and claimed you denounced following Christ, or that I twist scripture. I am sorry you think it is what I do. I have tried to explain what I hear the Lord tell me in scripture best I can, I truly am sorry you feel my explanations are only personal justification, twists of scripture and inadequate. I will try again to explain what I hear from the Lord.

I hear the Lord tell me, especially in the 119th psalm, that the law is very good, it is trustworthy to lead us in how we can live for the Lord.

All scripture is truth, and it is also truth that the law tells people what is sin and what is not sin. I don't think this takes away any of what the 119th psalm tells us about it. Paul is of God, and so is David. They both speak truth. Paul tells us it is for the lawless, and because we have sin in us we cannot brag about being lawless. It is Christ in us that makes us righteous, it is Christ's doing. That means that although the law is for the lawless, we are to listen to the law. We repent of sin for we follow Christ and we give our sin to Him for forgiveness, but it is Christ's doing that we are righteous.

God gave us teachers for a very good reason

how is it that you do not apply the NT fulfillment of the old, but keep pointing to the law and sin?

sadly, no one, not even other Sabbath keepers here, twist scripture as badly as you do

 

[lenna]

Blik said:
David most certainly did give all his sins to what he knew as the Savior. It was only explained to him as that God gave blood on the altar and he was to sacrifice blood as payment for his sins, and his sins were many.

See for yourself. Read Lev. 17:11. Study the sacrificial system as it relates to sin. Christ fulfilled this system, and you can see what Christ does for us in a better way if you will study this system.

you must have seen this. this is what you ignore among other things

Jesus is LORD OF THE SABBATH but you would prefer a created day to worship, which you do and tell others to do and you would declare unfinished that which God Himself declares FINISHED and Jesus said IT IS FINISHED before He gave up His life. How do you Sabbath worshipers conveniently FORGET that Jesus Himself broke the so called Sabbath ? HUH?

1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus did not condemn or tell His disciples not to eat the corn. He didn't judge them and say they broke God's law. He told the Pharisees they were without understanding BECAUSE of their condemnation and constant judging.

Judge with righteous judgement and since you cannot do that, judge yourself at least and not others

 

[Dino246]

The Sunday law was made by the Catholic church when they hijack the gospel and excluded the Jewish presence of the day they changed everything I for 2,000 years we've been blinded by the Catholic beast system I am a Protestant believer. And a descendant of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. We serve the Catholic church for centuries and then one day I learned the word of God as a child and I realized I was not in the right church and decided to move away from the Catholic Church and became a Protestant at the early age. Nobody is obligated to worship on Sabbath or Sunday to know history and how today came about very important in the worship of God

Hi Apostol...
I'm guessing that English is not your first language. That's fine, but it is difficult to understand what you're saying because your ideas are jumbled together.

The Catholic church may have made decrees regarding the day of worship, but they are irrelevant today. I don't attend my local Christian fellowship because of some Catholic decree, but because that is the day it meets.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I did not know that I denounced you and claimed you denounced following Christ, or that I twist scripture. I am sorry you think it is what I do. I have tried to explain what I hear the Lord tell me in scripture best I can, I truly am sorry you feel my explanations are only personal justification, twists of scripture and inadequate. I will try again to explain what I hear from the Lord.

I hear the Lord tell me, especially in the 119th psalm, that the law is very good, it is trustworthy to lead us in how we can live for the Lord.

All scripture is truth, and it is also truth that the law tells people what is sin and what is not sin. I don't think this takes away any of what the 119th psalm tells us about it. Paul is of God, and so is David. They both speak truth. Paul tells us it is for the lawless, and because we have sin in us we cannot brag about being lawless. It is Christ in us that makes us righteous, it is Christ's doing. That means that although the law is for the lawless, we are to listen to the law. We repent of sin for we follow Christ and we give our sin to Him for forgiveness, but it is Christ's doing that we are righteous.

And again you twist the Scripture by making it conform to your doctrine. The 119th psalm is not the context of 1 Timothy 1 so to predicate an interpretation based on how you understand that is to twist the meaning.

First understand what Paul is actually saying in context, which is not that we are to follow the law as you twist it to mean. Paul was addressing a situation in which people were claiming in order to follow Christ we had to follow the law which is why he told Timothy what he told him.

Even further if we are to observe a Sabbath as a matter of law, why did Paul in Galatians chastise the Galatians for observing days? Why did he tell them they were returning to slavery through such things?

 

[Blik]

Still putting words in my mouth and falsly accusing me.

The twisting of Scripture is what you tried to say about Paul stating the law is for the lawless. Rather than taking the time to understand Paul's message in that statement you twist it to keep your Sabbath keeping law.

The issue is not that you have a high view of law as you seem to think, but that you have an impoverished view of it. You fail to understand why Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" and instead desire to keep the Sabbath as an ordinance.

I sure DO as you say twist it in order to keep "my" (not the Lord's?) sabbath keeping law. I do not write scripture. Scripture tells us that all scripture is truth. If scripture is read as contradicting itself it is in our misunderstanding, for God does not disagree with God. It is up to us to see the real meaning.

I don't see why that my thinking that God established the Sabbath for our benefit disagrees with that God made Sabbath for our benefit. God blessed this special day for our sakes, and blessing is for our benefit.

I cannot understand why the church is so opposed to the writing of Genesis. They accept that God created us and our world, and get up on arms because God blessed a day for us. Why?