So I have an idea for a discussion

[Pilgrimshope]

But did John the Baptist preach 1 Cor 15:1-4 as well?

all Israel was waiting on the prophesied messiah. Do you Not understand that point ? How could Christ’s death for sin be preached before he died ? All Israel was waiting for these things

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot of prophecy like this . It’s no different than you or I we believe the things written in scripture from about 2000 years ago all about the messiah coming and dying for the worlds sin .

they were about 800 -950 years before when Isaiah wrote that about the messiah dying for sins and being raised to life that’s all in prophecy the whole event it’s purpose everything is there . They heard the same thing you did about the messiah dying for the sins of the world they were long before you weee long after.

God is not limited by the limits of our ability to think and measure what another brother tried to explain is it’s on prophecy way before it happened and it’s on scripture way after it happened what matters is faith .


When you read this scripture

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel has always been what God was saying including Jesus death and resurrection since man fell in Eden and he promised a seed to overcome the serpent that seed already is speaking of Jesus and the gospel .

God speaks knowing the end from the bery beginning Jesus wasn’t crucified at the beginning but the word of God about it to be believed was always

 

[Guojing]

all Israel was waiting on the prophesied messiah. Do you Not understand that point ? How could Christ’s death for sin be preached before he died ? All Israel was waiting for these things

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot of prophecy like this . It’s no different than you or I we believe the things written in scripture from about 2000 years ago all about the messiah coming and dying for the worlds sin .

they were about 800 -950 years before when Isaiah wrote that about the messiah dying for sins and being raised to life that’s all in prophecy the whole event it’s purpose everything is there . They heard the same thing you did about the messiah dying for the sins of the world they were long before you weee long after.

God is not limited by the limits of our ability to think and measure what another brother tried to explain is it’s on prophecy way before it happened and it’s on scripture way after it happened what matters is faith .


When you read this scripture

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel has always been what God was saying including Jesus death and resurrection since man fell in Eden and he promised a seed to overcome the serpent that seed already is speaking of Jesus and the gospel .

God speaks knowing the end from the bery beginning Jesus wasn’t crucified at the beginning but the word of God about it to be believed was always

I understood your point. So how do you think one gets saved if he were to die before the cross happened?

What did he needed to believe about Christ, before the cross?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I understood your point. So how do you think one gets saved if he were to die before the cross happened?

What did he needed to believe about Christ, before the cross?

that’s not all that’s in prophecy just like that’s not all that’s on the New Testament . We do need to believe the resurrection crucifixion ect I’ve never states otherwise .

the difference is jesusnchrostnisnnlt just a sacrifice for sin . He is the lord his word will never end its authority even when the world ends

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we both believe Jesus died and rose to save us . I believe that doesn’t then erase everything That God said to do , to be saved .

he suffered and died in order for us to be saved it’s really super important what he said because The resurrection proves ( because of other prophecy)

“; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;

whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

that’s proof that he is Gods son ( romans chapter 1 v 1-5 and the judge of all mankind as you see in acts there both statements by Paul and taught upon thoroughly in his letters such as this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a reference to that day pauls staring in acts that the resurrection is proof that it’s Jesus who is the judge

that’s why we should embrace his teachings and trust in the things we learn and the comfort and security he exudes while leading one home to the fathers house like the prodigal

he will see those Far away making thier way home and run out to meet them with a hug and a kiss with a new robe and family ring he’ll throw a celebration when people accept him but to know all this one needs to get into the gospel of the kingdom and believe

anyways I totally respect your right to believe and everything and I’m not in anyway a judge or authority so just my thoughts

 

[Guojing]

that’s not all that’s in prophecy just like that’s not all that’s on the New Testament . We do need to believe the resurrection crucifixion ect I’ve never states otherwise .

the difference is jesusnchrostnisnnlt just a sacrifice for sin . He is the lord his word will never end its authority even when the world ends

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we both believe Jesus died and rose to save us . I believe that doesn’t then erase everything That God said to do , to be saved .

he suffered and died in order for us to be saved it’s really super important what he said because The resurrection proves ( because of other prophecy)

So you are saying that, even before the cross, one must believe that Jesus died for his sins and rose again on the 3rd day?

This is despite the fact that even someone like Peter rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die?

And on resurrection day, no one was camping outside the tomb, counting down to his resurrection?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So you are saying that, even before the cross, one must believe that Jesus died for his sins and rose again on the 3rd day?

This is despite the fact that even someone like Peter rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die?

I’m pretty much at the point where this circle is complete . Like I said before you are free to choose your belief if you want to avoid the lords word it’s your choice or think it doesn’t apply

I hope you are blessed in your faith

 

[Guojing]

I’m pretty much at the point where this circle is complete . Like I said before you are free to choose your belief if you want to avoid the lords word it’s your choice or think it doesn’t apply

I hope you are blessed in your faith

I was trying to point out to you that Scripture stated explicitly that none of the 12, while Jesus was still in the flesh, actually believed that Jesus had to die and will be resurrected on the 3rd day.

You are the one that is avoiding God's word.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I was trying to point out to you that Scripture stated explicitly that none of the 12, while Jesus was still in the flesh, actually believed that Jesus had to die and will be resurrected on the 3rd day.

You are the one that is avoiding God's word.

lol ok

what logic are you using ? Your talking about men who’s eye witness accounts we are now discussing .

they were actually part of the gospel lol it was happening .

I’m saying those before in the time of the prophets the saints who believed and those after the church who believe . We believe the events of the life of Jesus and then peter Paul and all of those men who authored the Bible.

you are so misguided about the resurrection and completely avoid any scripture .

anyways I’m going to move on to someone with a bit better motives

 

[Guojing]

lol ok

what logic are you using ? Your talking about men who’s eye witness accounts we are now discussing .

they were actually part of the gospel lol it was happening .

I’m saying those before in the time of the prophets the saints who believed and those after the church who believe . We believe the events of the life of Jesus and then peter Paul and all of those men who authored the Bible.

you are so misguided about the resurrection and completely avoid any scripture .

anyways I’m going to move on to someone with a bit better motives

Everything I have stated to you, I have used scripture.

 

[Chester]

And why are you trying to add to what John 20:31 is saying? Did that verse stated that they had to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose on the 3rd day?

John 20:31 was after Christ resurrected, and yet John mentioned nothing about 1 Cor 15:1-4 in there.

I already stated that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY, so I agree with your first sentence.

But my point was that John 20:31 is the content of the gospel of the kingdom. You are lumping everything together and not rightly dividing the word of truth, that is why you cannot see the difference between 1 Cor 15:1-4 and John 20:31.

And you are ignoring what I said very clearly . . .

To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe that Jesus is the one who fulfills the promises of the Old Testament. John in his gospel spends almost half of his gospel on the last 48 hours of Jesus' life - so it is clear that Jesus dying on the cross is the major point of his entire book. To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe and understand that his death fulfilled the promises of the Old Testament prophets.

So you are wrong when you say "that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY," : John 20:31 absolutely will save anyone today who believes that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And you are ignoring what I said very clearly . . .

To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe that Jesus is the one who fulfills the promises of the Old Testament. John in his gospel spends almost half of his gospel on the last 48 hours of Jesus' life - so it is clear that Jesus dying on the cross is the major point of his entire book. To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe and understand that his death fulfilled the promises of the Old Testament prophets.

So you are wrong when you say "that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY," : John 20:31 absolutely will save anyone today who believes that Jesus is the Christ.

amen and amen to that written well after Jesus resurrection to the church

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Guojing]

And you are ignoring what I said very clearly . . .

To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe that Jesus is the one who fulfills the promises of the Old Testament. John in his gospel spends almost half of his gospel on the last 48 hours of Jesus' life - so it is clear that Jesus dying on the cross is the major point of his entire book. To believe that Jesus is the Christ means to believe and understand that his death fulfilled the promises of the Old Testament prophets.

So you are wrong when you say "that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY," : John 20:31 absolutely will save anyone today who believes that Jesus is the Christ.

You got that conclusion because you combine John 20:31 with 1 Cor 15:1-4 together, as I stated, you don't rightly divide the word of truth.

I have gave you lots of examples of Peter and others who confessed Matthew 16:16, and yet rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die, and they certainly was not camping outside the tomb counting down to his resurrection.

For Jews under that time period before Jesus died, are they saved if they were doing that? You are avoiding that question.

 

[Chester]

You got that conclusion because you combine John 20:31 with 1 Cor 15:1-4 together, as I stated, you don't rightly divide the word of truth.

I have gave you lots of examples of Peter and others who confessed Matthew 16:16, and yet rebuked Jesus for telling them he had to die, and they certainly was not camping outside the tomb counting down to his resurrection.

For Jews under that time period before Jesus died, are they saved if they were doing that? You are avoiding that question.

Jesus told Jesus - "You are the Christ" -- and the Christ (Messiah) was prophesied to give his life a ransom for the world (Isaiah 53).

Old Testament Jews get to heaven because they believe in Jesus Christ (the Messiah) who died to shed his blood for the atonement of sin. The entire law and sacrificial system was a picture looking forward to the coming of Jesus Christ. Jews were never saved because they kept all of the law, but because of faith (believing).

So the Jews of the time period before Jesus came were saved when they believed in the Messiah (Jesus), who would come to shed his blood for atonement of sins.

Sorry, you cannot separate Jesus as Messiah and the Messiah as the one who would give his life.

You are right that Peter, and others through the Old Testament, including at times the prophets, did not understand all the details of who the Messiah would be and how he would be the Lamb of God. But that does not change the fact that when they believed in the Messiah, they were believing in who He was (as God said) - and He was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world.