So I have an idea for a discussion
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Life comes through Jesus Christ alone who is LIFE! And Jesus showed the way which Paul followed. The words of Jesus, who is the way, the truth, and the life, and not just for the Jewish people, or for another age, but the words of my Jesus are for all the world of all time.
Paul was a man, not God: His words do not supercede the words of Jesus. Paul taught the same message given by Jesus.
The early church did not need to wait to know how to get saved, or to know what the "true" gospel was till Paul wrote I Corinthians 15. The early church from Pentecost on was justified by faith in Jesus Christ, by being born again. Same way to us today . . . Those in the Old Testament looked forward to Jesus Christ but it was by faith just the same - "Abraham believed God . . ."
Paul was a man, not God: His words do not supercede the words of Jesus. Paul taught the same message given by Jesus.
The early church did not need to wait to know how to get saved, or to know what the "true" gospel was till Paul wrote I Corinthians 15. The early church from Pentecost on was justified by faith in Jesus Christ, by being born again. Same way to us today . . . Those in the Old Testament looked forward to Jesus Christ but it was by faith just the same - "Abraham believed God . . ."
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Oh, I see, OK - that is not too hard . . .
John 20:31: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John wants his readers (which would surely include Jews as you point out) to believe that Jesus was the promised Christ (Messiah) of the OT Scriptures who was prophesied by Isaiah (Isaiah 53) to come and give his life a ransom. Yes, indeed Jesus was this Messiah who gave his life (as John clearly explains in this gospel).
Praise the Lord! Jesus came and lived and died and rose again just as the OT Scriptures said - He is the promised Messiah (Christ) of the Old Testament and salvation is through believing in Him.
John 20:31: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John wants his readers (which would surely include Jews as you point out) to believe that Jesus was the promised Christ (Messiah) of the OT Scriptures who was prophesied by Isaiah (Isaiah 53) to come and give his life a ransom. Yes, indeed Jesus was this Messiah who gave his life (as John clearly explains in this gospel).
Praise the Lord! Jesus came and lived and died and rose again just as the OT Scriptures said - He is the promised Messiah (Christ) of the Old Testament and salvation is through believing in Him.
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Thanks for clarifying.
So is it clear that, according to John 20:31, Jews did not need to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again on the 3rd day, in time past, in order that they may have life?
That was what Peter also told the Jews in Acts 2 and 3.
Peter also answered that in Matthew 16:16, to Jesus when Jesus asked him, and Jesus was satisfied with that answer.
Jesus did not go on and remind him, "You also need to believe that I am going to die and rise again on the 3rd day". In fact Peter even rebuked Jesus for telling them that.
That is the gospel of the kingdom, which won't save anyone today.
So is it clear that, according to John 20:31, Jews did not need to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again on the 3rd day, in time past, in order that they may have life?
That was what Peter also told the Jews in Acts 2 and 3.
Peter also answered that in Matthew 16:16, to Jesus when Jesus asked him, and Jesus was satisfied with that answer.
Jesus did not go on and remind him, "You also need to believe that I am going to die and rise again on the 3rd day". In fact Peter even rebuked Jesus for telling them that.
That is the gospel of the kingdom, which won't save anyone today.
No one is getting to heaven without the ransom of the blood of Jesus Christ to forgive sins. When Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah (the Christ), that includes what Isaiah (and others) said that this Messiah would do: He would suffer and die as an atonement for sin.
To say that "Jews did not need to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again on the 3rd day" is false. It is not explicitly stated in John 20:31 that they need to believe in the death and resurrection. But this is clear: the correct concept of who Messiah (Christ) is includes very clearly the atonement death of Jesus.
Why are you trying to separate the concept of Messiah (Christ) from the Messiah' atonement (Isaiah 53)? No Jew in the past, or today will get to heaven except because of the death of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
To believe that Jesus is the Christ (Matt. 16:16) means to believe in what the Christ was prophesied to do and be!
To say that "Jews did not need to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again on the 3rd day" is false. It is not explicitly stated in John 20:31 that they need to believe in the death and resurrection. But this is clear: the correct concept of who Messiah (Christ) is includes very clearly the atonement death of Jesus.
Why are you trying to separate the concept of Messiah (Christ) from the Messiah' atonement (Isaiah 53)? No Jew in the past, or today will get to heaven except because of the death of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
To believe that Jesus is the Christ (Matt. 16:16) means to believe in what the Christ was prophesied to do and be!
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Again welcome to the Pauline twilight zone.
I have no idea what posses them to lie about Jesus and his mission.
...as if Jesus was confused about why he came.
They actually believe Jesus thought the cross was plan b.
.....and Jesus,once the Jews rejected his supposed kingdom come idea,had to come up with another deal.
That is why the paulines say Jesus preached another gospel.
I have no idea what posses them to lie about Jesus and his mission.
...as if Jesus was confused about why he came.
They actually believe Jesus thought the cross was plan b.
.....and Jesus,once the Jews rejected his supposed kingdom come idea,had to come up with another deal.
That is why the paulines say Jesus preached another gospel.
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they won’t accept Paul’s teachings either only what sounds effortless
yes I think pauls letters are amazing they are filled with revelation of the gospel but his letters are the only scripture we’re ever earned to be very careful with
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
it’s very easy to pluck a verse here and there from pauls letters and make a false doctrine . He actually teaches the same things Jesus taught regarding everything but Paul expounds on things offering some revelation of things in the gospel that weren’t fully grasped same with all the epistles of the apostles
it’s terrible to exalt a servant over the Lord Paul would Rebuke such a thing
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
1 Timothy 6:3-5 KJV
yes I think pauls letters are amazing they are filled with revelation of the gospel but his letters are the only scripture we’re ever earned to be very careful with
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
it’s very easy to pluck a verse here and there from pauls letters and make a false doctrine . He actually teaches the same things Jesus taught regarding everything but Paul expounds on things offering some revelation of things in the gospel that weren’t fully grasped same with all the epistles of the apostles
it’s terrible to exalt a servant over the Lord Paul would Rebuke such a thing
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
1 Timothy 6:3-5 KJV
amen to that also and as important was his other purposes in coming
“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
Isaiah 42:1, 3-9
I love that prophecy so Many just like it
“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
Isaiah 42:1, 3-9
I love that prophecy so Many just like it
And why are you trying to add to what John 20:31 is saying? Did that verse stated that they had to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose on the 3rd day?
John 20:31 was after Christ resurrected, and yet John mentioned nothing about 1 Cor 15:1-4 in there.
I already stated that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY, so I agree with your first sentence.
But my point was that John 20:31 is the content of the gospel of the kingdom. You are lumping everything together and not rightly dividing the word of truth, that is why you cannot see the difference between 1 Cor 15:1-4 and John 20:31.
John 20:31 was after Christ resurrected, and yet John mentioned nothing about 1 Cor 15:1-4 in there.
I already stated that John 20:31 won't save anyone TODAY, so I agree with your first sentence.
But my point was that John 20:31 is the content of the gospel of the kingdom. You are lumping everything together and not rightly dividing the word of truth, that is why you cannot see the difference between 1 Cor 15:1-4 and John 20:31.
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