The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I would rather not say something is biblical or not and try to push it in someone’s face
no matter what side of the debate you are on
I am sure u have done it before and I hope someone stopped Me
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Here we go
If people would understand we both agree with this. We just disagree on when and how God gives us this wisdom enlightens us
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
It was revealed by god
It can be done without having to regenerate a person. I believe god has that power to act as a spirit to convince if sin righteousness and judgment. I know he did me
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
That has justification happening after regeneration. It has a man made alive in sin. Then having his sin forgiven
That is the main issue
Uhhh, Scripture. Do you believe you were born again before you even heard the gospel?
Scripture says that the natural man cannot receive what the Spirit of God is giving him. Not only that but the natural man cannot understand the things that are spiritually discerned.
I’m sure EG,was taught religious education at school as was I,so heard all about Jesus.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Paul is stating that those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.
The same in 1 Cor2:14.
The contrast in context is human wisdom and divine revelation .. the access point is divine revelation ... hearing the Gospel, not human wisdom... since the Gnostics thought they could know god through human wisdom.
Context.. what did Paul's audience need to understand!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
That’s not what I asked. I asked who believed one can be saved and never heard the gospel
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
They can’t unless god acts
Like he did me. He does not have to make me alive first he just has to help
Me understand. It’s up to me what I do with that understanding if I do not want to believe no matter what God does. I will Never believe
I think you can choose to believe what you think are theories. Like the theory of relativity and the theory of evolution. And for some, the theory that Christ existed and exists.
I don't think you have any choice when it comes to facts. Once you know something as a fact you can't un-know it or pretend you don't know it.
But that's just my theory...
How about this thought.
Another member posted about (1 Cor. 2:14):
"what scripture is presumed to teach. " But the unsaved man cannot receive Jesus nor the Gospel of God:for it is foolishness unto him : neither can he know it ,because it is spiritually discerned. NSV ( Non scriptural version. )
Here we see this verse used to teach the Calvinistic idea of ' regeneration precedes faith ' And the T in TULIP . But let's look at what the verses actually say . "
Because if they teach what they clearly seem to say, then those in opposition to salvation being all of God, are once again in trouble. This is why we are having this circular discussion about this one area of Scripture and many others. A discussion that on one side needs to prove, "natural man" means something other than what it does.
Whether you want to call it Calvinism or Free Grace, etc... there are too many Scriptures to ignore, or try to explain away. Why not just let Scripture speak and then do your best to harmonize these two great points of Salvation.
On one side:
1) Does Scripture teach being Chosen? YES
2) Does Scripture teach Election? YES
3) Does Scripture teach that there is God given Faith? YES
4) Does Scripture teach Predestination? YES
5) Does God know the exact number of Believers in the end? YES
On the other side:
1) Does Scripture teach that God demands everyone to Repent? YES
2) Does Scripture teach that the Gospel is offered to everyone without exception? YES
Finally, Does Scripture teach that God takes no pleasure in pouring out His Wrath? YES
NOW, Harmonize these facts, without doing damage to either.
Another member posted about (1 Cor. 2:14):
"what scripture is presumed to teach. " But the unsaved man cannot receive Jesus nor the Gospel of God:for it is foolishness unto him : neither can he know it ,because it is spiritually discerned. NSV ( Non scriptural version. )
Here we see this verse used to teach the Calvinistic idea of ' regeneration precedes faith ' And the T in TULIP . But let's look at what the verses actually say . "
Because if they teach what they clearly seem to say, then those in opposition to salvation being all of God, are once again in trouble. This is why we are having this circular discussion about this one area of Scripture and many others. A discussion that on one side needs to prove, "natural man" means something other than what it does.
Whether you want to call it Calvinism or Free Grace, etc... there are too many Scriptures to ignore, or try to explain away. Why not just let Scripture speak and then do your best to harmonize these two great points of Salvation.
On one side:
1) Does Scripture teach being Chosen? YES
2) Does Scripture teach Election? YES
3) Does Scripture teach that there is God given Faith? YES
4) Does Scripture teach Predestination? YES
5) Does God know the exact number of Believers in the end? YES
On the other side:
1) Does Scripture teach that God demands everyone to Repent? YES
2) Does Scripture teach that the Gospel is offered to everyone without exception? YES
Finally, Does Scripture teach that God takes no pleasure in pouring out His Wrath? YES
NOW, Harmonize these facts, without doing damage to either.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No. You end up denying the power of the Gospel. And unless you yourself had obeyed the Gospel, you could not have been saved.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
There is only one side.
NO a certain group are not chosen while others are not,
NO certain people are not elected while others ore not,
NO God does not predestine a favoured few while others are not,
NO God does give faith after regeneration
All the terms of Calvinism like election, predestination, chosen etc are not the biblical meanings of the words.
It is very clear that God is desiring that all should come to repentance and belief but not all do.
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4).
E
EleventhHour
Guest
And this is the exact truth of it, they would not be saved unless they chose to obey.