Justified by work vs faith

[Jackson123]

Salvation by faith not by work.

But faith produce work, most of the time a man have faith seen by his work

Back to Noah, If he is not work to build an ark how we say he have a faith?

God tell Noah, there Will be flood, make an ark.

If he believe that information, he must build an ark.

Imposible for him not build an ark If he believe the information that God deliver for him about flood.

In this case believe also mean obey

We ask Jesus, what shall I do to inherit the eternal live

Jesus say, love your God and your neighbors

If we want save and have faith in Jesus/believe in Jesus than we love God and neighbors

Imposible to have faith but not follow His teaching.

It Seem faith and work come in a packet, not seperate.


Luke 10
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

 

[Jackson123]

James 2
.14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can faith without work save him?

Tis verse say No

I believe If a man accept Jesus and die in the next second he save

So this verse is for most people that have faith and life for some time.

Verse 14 start with

What a profit? James expect we answer, No profit generate from faith without work.

Than James continue: can faith save him?

James expect the answer is No.

So faith without work not only reduce the reward, It is not save.

Imagine Noah say believe there Will flood, but not build the ark

Is that believe? Is that faith?

No

Faith without work is not faith

 

[Jackson123]

We must be careful to rightly divide the truth. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means = "a deliverance". Eternal deliverance is given by the sovereign grace of God, without the works of mankind. We can work out our own deliverances here on earth by our obedience to God's commands. If you interpret all salvation scriptures as eternal deliverances, you will not ever understand the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught. All scriptures must harmonize to understand the truth.

So you not agree with this verse

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[mailmandan]

James 2
.14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can faith without work save him?

Tis verse say No

So what kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith.

I believe If a man accept Jesus and die in the next second he save

Amen! (Ephesians 2:8,9)

So this verse is for most people that have faith and life for some time.

Verse 14 start with

What a profit? James expect we answer, No profit generate from faith without work.

Than James continue: can faith save him?

James expect the answer is No.

So faith without work not only reduce the reward, It is not save.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

So James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

Imagine Noah say believe there Will flood, but not build the ark

Is that believe? Is that faith?

No

Faith without work is not faith

If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, yet that was not the case. Keep in mind that Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it.

 

[Kemorean]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22. We do not have spiritual faith until we have been quickened to a new spiritual life, and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The natural man, only has faith of man, and his accomplishments, and thinks that the things of the Spirit is foolishness, and he cannot discern them, 1 Cor 2:14.

People get the idea that their faith saves them eternally by misinterpreting Eph 2:8. The faith in this verse is not mankind's faith, but is Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross. Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST.

Martin Luther added the word 'alone' to the Bible to force it to..say.."We are saved by Faith ALONE." But, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, James said in God's holy Word the Bible.."Don't you know, foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20) Maybe THAT is why Luther called James.."The book of straw!" and tried to take it away from the Bible. He should have heeded God's warning in Revelation 22:18 and 19) "If anyone adds to.." or "..takes away from the Words of this book..God will take away his share in the book of life.." Luther also wanted to remove the book of Revelation from the Bible calling it.."Silly." To their credit the other Reformers would not allow it.

 

[Jackson123]

So James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

I agree.
So do people in my church believe, murder steal etc no need repent only reduce the reward but still go to heaven, because salvation by faith, not by work.

The same question for these brother and sister

Is murder evident of faith? Can you imagine if your pastor rob the bank every 3 month to pay church maintenance, any way salvation by faith not by work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Martin Luther added the word 'alone' to the Bible to force it to..say.."We are saved by Faith ALONE." But, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, James said in God's holy Word the Bible.."Don't you know, foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20) Maybe THAT is why Luther called James.."The book of straw!" and tried to take it away from the Bible. He should have heeded God's warning in Revelation 22:18 and 19) "If anyone adds to.." or "..takes away from the Words of this book..God will take away his share in the book of life.." Luther also wanted to remove the book of Revelation from the Bible calling it.."Silly." To their credit the other Reformers would not allow it.

So James contradicted Paul

luther Wanted james out because he misunderstood it and it was used by the Catholic church to support their works based gospel.

if he would have understood it he would understand it did not support the church, nor does it support salvation by works of any type

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree.
So do people in my church believe, murder steal etc no need repent only reduce the reward but still go to heaven, because salvation by faith, not by work.

The same question for these brother and sister

Is murder evident of faith? Can you imagine if your pastor rob the bank every 3 month to pay church maintenance, any way salvation by faith not by work.

Can you name a Christian who goes out murdering people? Do,you have murderers in your church?

 

[Jackson123]

Martin Luther added the word 'alone' to the Bible to force it to..say.."We are saved by Faith ALONE." But, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, James said in God's holy Word the Bible.."Don't you know, foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20) Maybe THAT is why Luther called James.."The book of straw!" and tried to take it away from the Bible. He should have heeded God's warning in Revelation 22:18 and 19) "If anyone adds to.." or "..takes away from the Words of this book..God will take away his share in the book of life.." Luther also wanted to remove the book of Revelation from the Bible calling it.."Silly." To their credit the other Reformers would not allow it.

It seem Martin change

Quote

Martin Luther
“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.”


― Martin Luther
tags: christianity, faith, inspirational, religion

 

[Jackson123]

Can you name a Christian who goes out murdering people? Do,you have murderers in your church?

No, I can't name Christian that do murder, but I can name people in my church that believe, murder is only reduce the reward but still go to heaven

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, I can't name Christian that do murder, but I can name people in my church that believe, murder is only reduce the reward but still go to heaven

So Basically you have a strawman, you use these example, yet know of no one who does this, I bet if we look non of us know murderers.

you might be better served to find lesser sins which are just as deadly which people do commit

 

[Jackson123]

So Basically you have a strawman, you use these example, yet know of no one who does this, I bet if we look non of us know murderers.

you might be better served to find lesser sins which are just as deadly which people do commit

But I know people in my church believe what ever you do include murder, no need repent as long as you have faith in Jesus you are save, that is why I use murder for example.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But I know people in my church believe what ever you do include murder, no need repent as long as you have faith in Jesus you are save, that is why I use murder for example.

No believer would think of failI guess to confess a sin to god or claim it is ok to sin

So I would wonder why your church has non believers in it.

 

[Jackson123]

No believer would think of failI guess to confess a sin to god or claim it is ok to sin

So I would wonder why your church has non believers in it.

Because that what the pastor teach us, salvation by faith not by work, they misunderstood this statement and think what ever your work, include murder or helping the poor, have no effect on your salvation.

And I don't believe that teaching anymore.
Salvation by faith. Yes but faith will cause you obey His command to love God and other

 

[Bbrdrd]

Because that what the pastor teach us, salvation by faith not by work, they misunderstood this statement and think what ever your work, include murder or helping the poor, have no effect on your salvation.

And I don't believe that teaching anymore.
Salvation by faith. Yes but faith will cause you obey His command to love God and other

In a sense deeds have no bearing on salvation, though you're correct that there will be deeds commensurate with salvation.

The issue is that those good deeds that are done do not in any way merit salvation, instead salvation is a gift which transforms us.

As I brought up earlier, anger is likened to murder by Jesus so it's not as if murder is some kind of especially heinous crime. All sin is sin and all sin is paid in death.

So what relation do our works have to do with our salvation? None and all. Our salvation will work itself out in good works, but evil works do not preclude us any more than our good works earn us salvation.

It is by faith, but the faith that it is by is truly faithful. The works of one professing saving faith will agree with their profession of faith unless that profession is a lie. So faith saves, but some deceive themselves into believing they have faith when they don't.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Goodness......................... again
How many threads on this subject beating a dead horse?
Look around, the world is burning.

 

[Jackson123]

In a sense deeds have no bearing on salvation, though you're correct that there will be deeds commensurate with salvation.

The issue is that those good deeds that are done do not in any way merit salvation, instead salvation is a gift which transforms us.

As I brought up earlier, anger is likened to murder by Jesus so it's not as if murder is some kind of especially heinous crime. All sin is sin and all sin is paid in death.

So what relation do our works have to do with our salvation? None and all. Our salvation will work itself out in good works, but evil works do not preclude us any more than our good works earn us salvation.

It is by faith, but the faith that it is by is truly faithful. The works of one professing saving faith will agree with their profession of faith unless that profession is a lie. So faith saves, but some deceive themselves into believing they have faith when they don't.

Do you believe this verses?

Luke 10:25-28

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

 

[Bbrdrd]

Do you believe this verses?

Luke 10:25-28

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Of course, and I also recognize there's a reason the next verse begins "but he, desiring to justify himself,"

 

[Jackson123]

Of course, and I also recognize there's a reason the next verse begins "but he, desiring to justify himself,"

I am not quite understand what is your position

You believe that salvation by love God and love your neighbor, that mean if you hate God and hate your neighbor you not save, or

You believe as long as you have faith, it doesn't matter you hate God and neighbor you still save only lose your reward?

 

[Bbrdrd]

I am not quite understand what is your position

You believe that salvation by love God and love your neighbor, that mean if you hate God and hate your neighbor you not save, or

You believe as long as you have faith, it doesn't matter you hate God and neighbor you still save only lose your reward?

How can someone have faith and claim to love the God they can't see if they hate the neighbor they can?

That's like asking do I believe that water is dry. Its a categorical error.