Justified by work vs faith

[Jackson123]

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

Abraham justified by faith, is that mean he don't need to work?

Start with faith, Abraham had to do a Lot of work.

Faith make him to do work, travel with thousand of animal about 2200 miles. That is a Lot of work.

Quote
From Ur, Abraham traveled 700 miles to the borders of present-day Iraq, another 700 miles into Syria, another 800 down to Egypt by the inland road, and then back into Canaan - what is now Israel.Mar 13, 1983

End quote.

By faith Noah do a Lot of work to save himself and whosoever believe.

He had to build a huge ship. That is alot of work.

When the Lord ask Abraham to go to the promise land, Abraham not say, Yes Lord, but you do It for me, Send your angel to carry me and my family, and my animal and I Will be there in a second by faith

Apparently he had to work for It.

By faith we save, as soon as we have faith and die in the next se

 

[Jackson123]

Let me quote Philip Ian 2:12

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work for your own salvation? Vs

I believe the finish work If Jesus oN the crosd

Killing only reduce reward.

Let us ponder what happen to Noah.

God tell him there Will be a float

Noah say I believe the finish work of God, I don't need to build a ship just say in the name of YHWH there Will be a giant ship

And It happen just use faith not work

Than the Rain start happen, Noah say, salvation by faith, not by work, I don't want to walk to the ship, that is salvation by work

In the name of YHWH and in a split second Noah in the ship

That is not what happen, Yes Noah save by faith, because he believe the information from the Lord

But he had to work for his salvation

He work, build a giant ship, If he not work for his salvation, not build the ship,I don't think he sabpve

He may good in swiming, but he had to obey the Lord for his salvation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

Abraham justified by faith, is that mean he don't need to work?

Start with faith, Abraham had to do a Lot of work.

Faith make him to do work, travel with thousand of animal about 2200 miles. That is a Lot of work.

Quote
From Ur, Abraham traveled 700 miles to the borders of present-day Iraq, another 700 miles into Syria, another 800 down to Egypt by the inland road, and then back into Canaan - what is now Israel.Mar 13, 1983

End quote.

By faith Noah do a Lot of work to save himself and whosoever believe.

He had to build a huge ship. That is alot of work.

When the Lord ask Abraham to go to the promise land, Abraham not say, Yes Lord, but you do It for me, Send your angel to carry me and my family, and my animal and I Will be there in a second by faith

Apparently he had to work for It.

By faith we save, as soon as we have faith and die in the next se

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22. We do not have spiritual faith until we have been quickened to a new spiritual life, and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The natural man, only has faith of man, and his accomplishments, and thinks that the things of the Spirit is foolishness, and he cannot discern them, 1 Cor 2:14.

People get the idea that their faith saves them eternally by misinterpreting Eph 2:8. The faith in this verse is not mankind's faith, but is Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross. Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Let me quote Philip Ian 2:12

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work for your own salvation? Vs

I believe the finish work If Jesus oN the crosd

Killing only reduce reward.

Let us ponder what happen to Noah.

God tell him there Will be a float

Noah say I believe the finish work of God, I don't need to build a ship just say in the name of YHWH there Will be a giant ship

And It happen just use faith not work

Than the Rain start happen, Noah say, salvation by faith, not by work, I don't want to walk to the ship, that is salvation by work

In the name of YHWH and in a split second Noah in the ship

That is not what happen, Yes Noah save by faith, because he believe the information from the Lord

But he had to work for his salvation

He work, build a giant ship, If he not work for his salvation, not build the ship,I don't think he sabpve

He may good in swiming, but he had to obey the Lord for his salvation.

Noah was a just man and found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Noah's faith in the Lord is what prompted him to do the work of building the ark. Noah's faith delivered him from drowning in the flood, his work did not deliver him eternally, he was already delivered eternally, or he would not have had spiritual faith, in a spiritual God.

 

[Blik]

The Gnostics believed that it is only in the spirit that is the true obedience, they denied the physical. In Colossians it tells us these false prophets insisted on ascetic practice. They said don't handle, taste, or touch. Scripture says these are doctrines of men. Scripture says these things belong to the earth and we are to put on Christ who tells us how to walk.

 

[Corban]

Let me quote Philip Ian 2:12

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work for your own salvation? Vs

I believe the finish work If Jesus oN the crosd

Killing only reduce reward.

Let us ponder what happen to Noah.

God tell him there Will be a float

Noah say I believe the finish work of God, I don't need to build a ship just say in the name of YHWH there Will be a giant ship

And It happen just use faith not work

Than the Rain start happen, Noah say, salvation by faith, not by work, I don't want to walk to the ship, that is salvation by work

In the name of YHWH and in a split second Noah in the ship

That is not what happen, Yes Noah save by faith, because he believe the information from the Lord

But he had to work for his salvation

He work, build a giant ship, If he not work for his salvation, not build the ship,I don't think he sabpve

He may good in swiming, but he had to obey the Lord for his salvation.

Let us take a hypothetical case. Joe is a mountain climber. While climbing he slips, falls and injures himself badly. Night falls and he is left on a narrow ledge. In the weeks leading up to his accident, his friend had been preaching the gospel to him. Now, facing the cold, pain and lonely death, he is moved to believe in Jesus. Just before midnight, on the cold narrow ledge, he cries out the name of Jesus from a believing heart. Two hours later, the cold and his injuries overcome him and he dies.

What is his status before God? Your two postings imply that work must accompany faith. What about Joe?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Let me quote Philip Ian 2:12

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work for your own salvation? Vs

I believe the finish work If Jesus oN the crosd

Killing only reduce reward.

Let us ponder what happen to Noah.

God tell him there Will be a float

Noah say I believe the finish work of God, I don't need to build a ship just say in the name of YHWH there Will be a giant ship

And It happen just use faith not work

Than the Rain start happen, Noah say, salvation by faith, not by work, I don't want to walk to the ship, that is salvation by work

In the name of YHWH and in a split second Noah in the ship

That is not what happen, Yes Noah save by faith, because he believe the information from the Lord

But he had to work for his salvation

He work, build a giant ship, If he not work for his salvation, not build the ship,I don't think he sabpve

He may good in swiming, but he had to obey the Lord for his salvation.

We must be careful to rightly divide the truth. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means = "a deliverance". Eternal deliverance is given by the sovereign grace of God, without the works of mankind. We can work out our own deliverances here on earth by our obedience to God's commands. If you interpret all salvation scriptures as eternal deliverances, you will not ever understand the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught. All scriptures must harmonize to understand the truth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Gnostics believed that it is only in the spirit that is the true obedience, they denied the physical. In Colossians it tells us these false prophets insisted on ascetic practice. They said don't handle, taste, or touch. Scripture says these are doctrines of men. Scripture says these things belong to the earth and we are to put on Christ who tells us how to walk.

Could you expound a little further on how in Colossians it tells us about these false prophets? You may use a different version of the bible than I do, and maybe that's the reason I do not see it. Thank you.

 

[Jackson123]

People get the idea that their faith saves them eternally by misinterpreting Eph 2:8. The faith in this verse is not mankind's faith, but is Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross. Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST.

Yep, by faith of Jesus, and faith of Jesus Will bear the fruit of loving work

 

[Jackson123]

Noah was a just man and found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Noah's faith in the Lord is what prompted him to do the work of building the ark. Noah's faith delivered him from drowning in the flood, his work did not deliver him eternally, he was already delivered eternally, or he would not have had spiritual faith, in a spiritual God.

So,you believe Noah do not need to build the giant ship to be save?

 

[Jackson123]

Let us take a hypothetical case. Joe is a mountain climber. While climbing he slips, falls and injures himself badly. Night falls and he is left on a narrow ledge. In the weeks leading up to his accident, his friend had been preaching the gospel to him. Now, facing the cold, pain and lonely death, he is moved to believe in Jesus. Just before midnight, on the cold narrow ledge, he cries out the name of Jesus from a believing heart. Two hours later, the cold and his injuries overcome him and he dies.

What is his status before God? Your two postings imply that work must accompany faith. What about Joe?

Joe save. Yes work a company his faith, cried out in the name of Jesus is the only work he can do. If he survive, his faith Will bear the fruit of loving work

 

[Jackson123]

The Gnostics believed that it is only in the spirit that is the true obedience, they denied the physical. In Colossians it tells us these false prophets insisted on ascetic practice. They said don't handle, taste, or touch. Scripture says these are doctrines of men. Scripture says these things belong to the earth and we are to put on Christ who tells us how to walk.

Is that mean killing ok, because we don't expect physical obidience

 

[Blik]

Could you expound a little further on how in Colossians it tells us about these false prophets? You may use a different version of the bible than I do, and maybe that's the reason I do not see it. Thank you.

I am using the Holman, now, as I could find a copy with large enough print I could read it.

Check on the second chapter of Colossians. It doesn't name the false prophets as gnostic, it says these false prophets take you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human traditions. I got the name gnostics for these false prophets from commentators, but their beliefs follow those of the false prophets spoken of in Colossians.

Col. 2:18 speaks of their insisting on ascetic practice, Col. 2:21 speaks of their denying anything physical or what you handle, taste, or touch.

 

[p_rehbein]

Some Info FYI:

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ication//RK=2/RS=X3CHu28fQf17FbmUJo7Jml6qNts-

(excerpt)

Accordingly it is not surprising that salvation is often viewed in legal terms. The basic question in all religion is, "How can sinful people be just (i.e., be justified) before the holy God?" Justification is a legal term with a meaning like"acquittal"; in religion it points to the process whereby a person is declared to be right before God. That person should be an upright and good person, but justification does not point to qualities like these. That is rather the content of sanctification. Justification points to the acquittal of one who is tried before God. In both the Old Testament and the New the question receives a good deal of attention and in both it is clear that people cannot bring about their justification by their own efforts. The legal force of the terminology is clear when Job exclaims, "Now that I have prepared my case, I know I will be vindicated" ( Job 13:18 ).

 

[AndyMaleh]

This question is a red herring. A believer is willing to do any work for Jesus Christ. They never wonder about this in the first place as the question never crosses their busy devoted minds, which are focused on serving God, Jesus Christ, and their fellow believers. It only crosses the mind of Satan followers, lazy slackers, and people who are trying to get away with murder.

 

[Jackson123]

God. In both the Old Testament and the New the question receives a good deal of attention and in both it is clear that people cannot bring about their justification by their own efforts.

Also called justification by faith .Theology. the act of God whereby humankind is made or accounted just, or free from guilt or penalty of sin.


Yep, we need forgiveness. But there are some requirement for a person to be forgiven.
That person must accept Jesus, invite Jesus into his heart

And Jesus in a person heart Will couse him to love God and love other, not kill or rob other. By fruit you tell the tree

 

[AndyMaleh]

Also called justification by faith .Theology. the act of God whereby humankind is made or accounted just, or free from guilt or penalty of sin.


Yep, we need forgiveness. But there are some requirement for a person to be forgiven.
That person must accept Jesus, invite Jesus into his heart

And Jesus in a person heart Will couse him to love God and love other, not kill or rob other. By fruit you tell the tree

This is what Paul the Apostle says, and it only applies to him because he was "trying to get away with murder" as per my previous post. After all, he used to be a murderer and has special considerations for his situation.

For those who are pure at heart still, this shouldn't be a question to begin with. Here is what Jesus Christ truly says:

“21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 (WEB). (notice how we have to do the will of the lord to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which is work)

"20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 5:20 (WEB) (notice how righteousness is needed to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which requires good works and avoidance of evil)

"17 From that time, Jesus began to preach, and to say, “Repent! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”" Matthew 4:17 (WEB) (notice his call for repentance, a form of work)

"47 If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into God’s Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna[a] of fire," Mark 9:47 (WEB) (notice how he's warning about how our actions could lead us to Satan's temptation and we better tear out our lustful eye in that case than to lose God's Kingdom and enter Hell)

14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the Good News of God’s Kingdom, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and God’s Kingdom is at hand! Repent, and believe in the Good News.” Mark 1:14-15 (WEB) (notice how Jesus didn't just say believe as more than faith is needed to enter God's Kingdom, that is repentance too, which includes work to right what's wrong)

Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 5:10 (WEB) (notice how Jesus emphasizes the value of righteousness to enter the Kingdom of Heaven when persecuted for it instead of saying it could be given up in the face of persecution)

19 When anyone hears the word of the Kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown by the roadside. 20 What was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word and immediately with joy receives it; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while. When oppression or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 What was sown among the thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of this age and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 What was sown on the good ground, this is he who hears the word and understands it, who most certainly bears fruit and produces, some one hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty.” Matthew 13:18-23 (WEB) (notice how Jesus emphasized that if you have faith alone without works, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown in the heart... only those who bear fruit can produce because they worked by what they heard immediately without procrastination so that when they later got tested, they stood strong in their faith for God and repelled Satan and his minions entry into their heart)

31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” John 8:31-32 (WEB) (notice the emphasis on remaining in his word, that is doing what he said, after which one gets to know the truth from God, and the truth makes them free.)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here is what Jesus Christ truly says:

Okay. So let's try to understand what these passages are saying.

THERE ARE MANY FALSE PROFESSORS WHO SAY THEY ARE CHRISTIANS
“21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 (WEB).

UNLESS ONE IS CLOTHED WITH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST HE CANNOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
"20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 5:20 (WEB)

REPENTANCE IS ESSENTIAL FOR SALVATION (AS IS FAITH)
"17 From that time, Jesus began to preach, and to say, “Repent! For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”" Matthew 4:17 (WEB)

EVERY PERSON ON EARTH SHOULD REPENT OR FACE ETERNAL DAMNATION
"47 If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into God’s Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna[a] of fire," Mark 9:47 (WEB)

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS, BUT WE MUST REPENT IN ORDER TO BE SAVED
14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the Good News of God’s Kingdom, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and God’s Kingdom is at hand! Repent, and believe in the Good News.” Mark 1:14-15 (WEB)

BELIEVERS WILL BE PERSECUTED WHEN THEY FOLLOW CHRIST
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 5:10 (WEB)

THE HEARTS OF MEN ARE COMPARED TO VARIOUS SOILS
19 When anyone hears the word of the Kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away that which has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown by the roadside. 20 What was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word and immediately with joy receives it; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while. When oppression or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 What was sown among the thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of this age and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 What was sown on the good ground, this is he who hears the word and understands it, who most certainly bears fruit and produces, some one hundred times as much, some sixty, and some thirty.” Matthew 13:18-23 (WEB)

DISCIPLES OF CHRIST MUST OBEY CHRIST
31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” John 8:31-32 (WEB)

Not one of these passages contradicts the Gospel truth that sinners are justified by grace THROUGH FAITH, and that salvation is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

 

[Jackson123]

that salvation is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a gift or grace through faith

And faith mean invite Jesus to one heart, It Will produce loving work, not murder.

 

[Jackson123]

that salvation is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

I believe salvation Will bear the fruit of humbleness not boast