Chosen by God - A study in Election

[eternally-gratefull]

Eph 1 .
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
See ,this proves you wrong . I rest my case .

Don’t forget Eph 1: 13 and 14 shows when this occured

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
and if children, also heirs: heirs indeed of God, and joint-heirs of Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified together.

Adoption? Already a done deal. We are simply waiting for glorified bodies with which we can enjoy full and unfettered fellowship with God. IMO, this adoption being foreordained in the will of God, has already happened as far as God is concerned. But it has not yet happened as far as we are concerned.

Again all of this happened in eternity past. The whole kit and caboodle.

Rom 4:17
As it is written, I have made you the father of many nations. [He was appointed our father] in the sight of God in Whom he believed, Who gives life to the dead and speaks of the nonexistent things that [He has foretold and promised] as if they [already] existed.

You forget when these things took place on a.n induvidual basis

 

[cv5]

And you forgot all about THE FAITH OF THE ONE WHO BELIEVES ON CHRIST.

So let's go back to John chapter 3:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Now kindly go to Romans 4 and make the connection between (1)GRACE, (2) FAITH, and (3) IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And before you come along and say that God gives the gift of SAVING FAITH only to the elect, read and study Romans 10, particularly verse 17:

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. [the Gospel]

I fully agree that the foolishness of preaching is the technique by which God has chosen to redeem mankind. This technique however does not impact in the least the fact that God has chosen us and foreordained us in eternity past.

I believe that God himself grants repentance and faith. Perhaps this is where you and I differ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if you mean me, yes you did

his posts are utterly confusing and even a Calvinist would go whaaaa?

Not sure what you mean, it was directed to a comment Chester made which i misunderstood

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is double predestination that is a false doctrine. Election is however boilerplate.

You are merely ASSUMING that election is for salvation. But before you do that, you need to address the issues I have raised, since the Bible clearly teaches:

1. Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the whole human race.

2. Therefore all men are born sinners, and all need salvation.

3. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

4. God offers salvation to all mankind.

5. Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to all nations and to every creature.

6. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, therefore it generates saving faith.

7. God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

8. God now commands all men to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Calvinists simply take Romans 9 out of context and then manufacture their false doctrine. So unless you can refute FROM SCRIPTURE what I have summarized above, you should reject and repudiate Calvin's false doctrines.

 

[Iconoclast]

OK
Eph 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Rom 8:29
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

2Tim 1:9
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Prov 16:4
The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.


1 Pet 1:20
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

You only vonfuse them when you offer scripture

You can't take one scripture out of context please read Ephesians chapter 2 in its entirety.

As if the first 12 verses do not matter,lol

utter nonsense and an excellent point by point explanation of why most people reject Calvinism

Calvinism appeals to certain people because it defines their life for them so that they do not have to do so

the Bible is clear that salvation is only through the blood of Christ and whosoever will may call upon His name for salvation

@ cv5 as for this thread, why on earth would you start this up again when there are threads running page after page about this very thing?

as for MacArthur, he has basically consigned millions to hell, in his mind, because of his anti-gifts rhetoric

lenna
If you read the verses offered you might begin to understand. Emotional feelings does not equal truth

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe that God himself grants repentance and faith. Perhaps this is where you and I differ.

You should have read and studied Romans 10 before responding. So kindly go back and chew on what it teaches.

 

[cv5]

Don’t forget Eph 1: 13 and 14 shows when this occured

It's a matter of perspective. From man's limited perspective it occurs at the time of repentance. From Gods perspective, all of this happened in eternity past.

Make no mistake God's perspective is the correct perspective.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a matter of perspective. From man's limited perspective it occurs at the time of repentance. From Gods perspective, all of this happened in eternity past.

Make no mistake God's perspective is the correct perspective.

I just read what paul said

after you believed you were sealed

we we’re not saved before we were sealed, if we died before that state we would have went to hell lost

 

[Iconoclast]

And proof text bingo begins.

It is better than NO TEXT strawman ideas

 

[Iconoclast]

It's a matter of perspective. From man's limited perspective it occurs at the time of repentance. From Gods perspective, all of this happened in eternity past.

Make no mistake God's perspective is the correct perspective.

They like to read eph1 starting at vs.13 that keeps them from finding truth,lol.

 

[lenna]

hmmm a little research goes a long way. MacArthur is a Calvinist as stated on his site, the messages linked to in the op are from 1988 and he also has an article that supposedly explains away the CONTRADICTIONS in that belief

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, interacts with this sad rendition by MacArthur whose bottom line for the many contradictions seems to be 'duh...I don't know'

so when someone tells us that he/she is not a Calvinist, yet goes to a super Calvinist's site to find proof for what they believe, I am inclined to say 'you may not call yourself a Calvinist, but if a duck walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and posts like a duck, well QUACK! it's a Calvinist LOL!

ps skip the adds unless you are a democrat and want to donate

 

[Iconoclast]

You should have read and studied Romans 10 before responding. So kindly go back and chew on what it teaches.

He did, but understands that Romans 8 and Romans 9 lead up to Romans10

 

[cv5]

You are merely ASSUMING that election is for salvation. But before you do that, you need to address the issues I have raised, since the Bible clearly teaches:

1. Adam's disobedience brought sin and death upon the whole human race.

2. Therefore all men are born sinners, and all need salvation.

3. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

4. God offers salvation to all mankind.

5. Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to all nations and to every creature.

6. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, therefore it generates saving faith.

7. God now commands all men everywhere to repent.

8. God now commands all men to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Calvinists simply take Romans 9 out of context and then manufacture their false doctrine. So unless you can refute FROM SCRIPTURE what I have summarized above, you should reject and repudiate Calvin's false doctrines.

Allow me to reiterate I am not a Calvinist.
I agree with all of your points. No doubt about it.
Your problem is that you SEEM to deny the doctrine of predestination, foreordination, and God's choosing. There are so many Scriptures that support it that it is clear-cut boilerplate doctrine.

 

[Iconoclast]

hmmm a little research goes a long way. MacArthur is a Calvinist as stated on his site, the messages linked to in the op are from 1988 and he also has an article that supposedly explains away the CONTRADICTIONS in that belief

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, interacts with this sad rendition by MacArthur whose bottom line for the many contradictions seems to be 'duh...I don't know'

so when someone tells us that he/she is not a Calvinist, yet goes to a super Calvinist's site to find proof for what they believe, I am inclined to say 'you may not call yourself a Calvinist, but if a duck walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and posts like a duck, well QUACK! it's a Calvinist LOL!

If you are getting your ideas from Leighton..explain away...the scriptures you are in trouble.
James White torches his errors quite often,Leighton was silenced and a no show at the Romans 9 debate.

 

[lenna]

You only vonfuse them when you offer scripture

As if the first 12 verses do not matter,lol

lenna
If you read the verses offered you might begin to understand. Emotional feelings does not equal truth

vonfuse? well I am not vonfused and your typical angry Calvinist response with mocking included, is to be expected

 

[lenna]

If you are getting your ideas from Leighton..explain away...the scriptures you are in trouble.
James White torches his errors quite often,Leighton was silenced and a no show at the Romans 9 debate.

well actually no although the video should be watched but I know that no Calvinist will watch it with the intent of actually considering what is being said

why don't you bench yourself since you have nothing to offer other than the usual rhetoric and I can assure you, I have heard it all in this forum.

I could not be more earnest when I state I find the typical unreasoning and sarcastic responses from so many Calvinists to be repugnant and without merit since the typical response consists of nothing more than at attempt at discrediting and belittling others that you apparently look down upon since they are not in the Bible according to Calvin/MacArthur

no response is necessary since there is no need to point out your obvious errors

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He did, but understands that Romans 8 and Romans 9 lead up to Romans10

Roman 9-11 are seperate from Romans 8. They concernign Gods election of Israel Not the salvation of individual people

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you are getting your ideas from Leighton..explain away...the scriptures you are in trouble.
James White torches his errors quite often,Leighton was silenced and a no show at the Romans 9 debate.

who Cares what certain people think? Are you a people follower or God follower?

 

[Nehemiah6]

You have not come close to refuting anything because you fo not demonstrate an understanding of the versed you offer. you do not understand jn3:15-17

Hahahaha. Even a child could explain John 3:15-17 to you. Even John Calvin could not (in good conscience) deny what is plainly stated therein.

DID MOSES SHUT OUT ANY ISRAELITES FROM THE REMEDY FOR SIN?
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...

DOES CHRIST DRAW ALL MEN TO HIMSELF THROUGH THE CROSS?
...even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

DOES "WHOSOEVER" MEAN ANYONE AND EVERYONE REGARDLESS?
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

DID GOD LOVE ALL HUMANITY -- THE HUMAN RACE?
16 For God so loved the world...

IS CHRIST GOD'S GIFT OF SALVATION TO ALL ?
..that he gave his only begotten Son...

IS "WHOSOEVER" REPEATED TWICE SO THAT CALVINISTS WON'T HAVE AN EXCUSE?
...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish...

IS THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE OFFERED FREELY TO ALL?
...but have everlasting life...

DOES "THE WORLD" HERE MEAN ALL OF HUMANITY -- THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD?
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world...

DOES GOD WANT THE WORLD OF HUMANITY TO BE SAVED?
....but that the world through him might be saved...

A WORD OF WARNING: THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF CHRIST. BE CAREFUL THAT YOU DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE CHRIST A LIAR WITH YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE.