"this generation will not pass away" - until the second coming of Jesus?

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PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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There is nothing in the text to support your assertion.
Nicely said Dino. There shouldn't be any debate as to which generation Jesus was speaking to as He spoke to that generation all the time in very unflattering ways. It should not be a surprise which generation was in His cross hairs or in this case, which He would direct His sword.

Luke 9:41 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.”

Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Mark 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”


Peter similarly thought poorly of his generation.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

Paul echoes the same sentiment.

Phil 2:15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world.

Some of us have enough spiritual insight to recognize that God would deal with the generation which were the children of those who killed His prophets, which actually killed His Son and the disciples of His Son. Others think that Christ is more upset with our generation or some future to us generation.

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
 

Jimbone

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Aug 22, 2014
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Nicely said Dino. There shouldn't be any debate as to which generation Jesus was speaking to as He spoke to that generation all the time in very unflattering ways. It should not be a surprise which generation was in His cross hairs or in this case, which He would direct His sword.

Luke 9:41 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.”

Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Mark 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Peter similarly thought poorly of his generation.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

Paul echoes the same sentiment.

Phil 2:15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world.

Some of us have enough spiritual insight to recognize that God would deal with the generation which were the children of those who killed His prophets, which actually killed His Son and the disciples of His Son. Others think that Christ is more upset with our generation or some future to us generation.

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Man it really couldn't be more clear really, it seems we are always caught up in one certain verse in Matthew, but the truth is that this is everywhere. Even one of the strangest verses in the bible, to me, has had light shown on it from this view. On the way to be crucified Jesus tells some weeping women not to weep for Him, He said to weep for their children. That verse always stuck out to me for some reason. Why? Why should they weep for their children more than Him? What in the world are their children going to face worse than what was happening to Him. In light of a coming judgement on those very children, knowing now what they were going to face at the hands of the Romans, this verse makes SO much more sense. To me.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Man it really couldn't be more clear really, it seems we are always caught up in one certain verse in Matthew, but the truth is that this is everywhere. Even one of the strangest verses in the bible, to me, has had light shown on it from this view. On the way to be crucified Jesus tells some weeping women not to weep for Him, He said to weep for their children. That verse always stuck out to me for some reason. Why? Why should they weep for their children more than Him? What in the world are their children going to face worse than what was happening to Him. In light of a coming judgement on those very children, knowing now what they were going to face at the hands of the Romans, this verse makes SO much more sense. To me.
YES. GREAT POINT!!! I hadn't made that connection yet, guess I forgot that verse. Once I came to see the truth, everything started making sense. JTB starts out in Mat 3 foreshadowing what would come to those wicked leaders and the theme continues throughout the NT. No wonder the disciples asked about it since Jesus kept bringing it up over and over.

How about this passage?

24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.

25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.”

26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified.


They had NO IDEA what they were asking for and that they and their children would endure the greatest suffering any nation EVER endured or ever will again.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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Makes perfect sense, and I am of course going to continue as well, but I just have't studied this part well, but thank you for your input brother.

It's so amazing to see it all fit together like it does. Not surprising considering the perfect God we serve, but to be gifted these glimpses into the perfection of His word and the nature and order of His plan in His creation, and amoungst such imperfect rebels like us is just beyond my capacity to fully grasp, (understatement of the year for sure) and excites the soul to see. Praise Jesus name........., well, for everything!!!!
(Full Preterism Is Heretical)

The individual (PlainWord) denies a future second coming of Jesus Christ, and also denies a future resurrection of the believer?

2 Timothy 4:1-4KJV

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Timothy 2:15-18KJV
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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(Full Preterism Is Heretical)

The individual (PlainWord) denies a future second coming of Jesus Christ, and also denies a future resurrection of the believer?

2 Timothy 4:1-4KJV
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Timothy 2:15-18KJV
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
The "last day" was the last day of their age, not the planet. The resurrection happened AFTER 2 Timothy was written. Nothing I believe conflicts with the passages you cite or any passage. Everything you believe conflicts.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Full preterism does not believe the second coming takes place at death. It came in 70 AD. We (at least I) believe we come to Christ upon death, not the other way around.

Bodily resurrection?? Your current flesh body has no part in your spiritual body. Were you asleep in Paul's class when this was taught?
There are different teachings concerning (Full Preterism)

If you deny the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens or the resurrection of the believer are (Future) events or have been fulfilled already, your a (Full Preterist)
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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The "last day" was the last day of their age, not the planet. The resurrection happened AFTER 2 Timothy was written. Nothing I believe conflicts with the passages you cite or any passage. Everything you believe conflicts.
(Full Preterism Is Heretical)

The second coming of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of believers takes place on the (Future) Last Day

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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(Full Preterism Is Heretical)

The second coming of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of believers takes place on the (Future) Last Day

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Their age began when they were given the Law by Moses and ended when they were left desolate. Thus, they were in their last days during that final generation. "Last days" do not go on for longer than the age itself, which was about 1,600 years.

Hebrews 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;


The below happened at Pentecost:

Acts 2:17
‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.


Christ rose up those in Hades on the last day of their age as I've been saying.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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@PlainWord , do you believe the following verses took place / were fulfilled in the events surrounding 70ad? (just wondering):

Matthew 12:40-42 [and its parallels] -

40 For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

41 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450 (future tense)] in the judgment with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the south will rise up [G1453 (future tense)] in the judgment with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] this the generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Wondering your thoughts as to these passages, and your viewpoint of the "WHEN" of them.

Thanks.


[note: I do not believe these passages are saying they/the righteous will be "resurrected [from the dead]" at the same point in time as the others/unsaved... just that "IN THE JUDGMENT" there is a "with [G3326 - meta - accompanying]" aspect (and 'future tense' to when it was stated by Jesus), seems to me]


Eph4:8 - "Therefore it says: "Having ascended on high, He led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men." ... you believe did not occur till 70ad? Or other verse??
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Yes, but was the context of that particular discussion Jesus' own statement, or was it the disciples' comments and questions? It is not appropriate to take a single comment from Jesus and apply it to everything He ever said.
I think the point of the discussion was that they couldn't understand what Jesus meant until their minds were able to accept that the resurrection Jesus spoke of was real.

Take a single comment and apply it to everything He said. Hmm.

Dino, that statement seems to rise out of a bad experience. I'll try not to use a single comment that way.
Grace and Peace
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Thank you so much. I was very blessed by that, I read both messages and I agree. It makes sense. Thank you for setting me straight on this.
My pleasure. = )

Grateful to know that you could understand at least some of my chicken scratch. lol
 
May 22, 2020
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The English speaking world has been using the KJV for 409 years, it's been wrong this entire time :eek:

Perhaps the 54+ scholars that worked on the KJV need your correction :)

The change is known as ...."New....New age religion".... interpretations of scripture. It lends itself to the end time prophecy of....in the end times there will be great deceptions....
Baptism not reqquired
OSAS
Hyper Grace
Universalism,
et al.
Those same folks will maintain that the Bible never changes...so, change the interpretation.
The left radical doing their ...spin.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The change is known as ...."New....New age religion".... interpretations of scripture. It lends itself to the end time prophecy of....in the end times there will be great deceptions....
Baptism not reqquired
OSAS
Hyper Grace
Universalism,
et al.
Those same folks will maintain that the Bible never changes...so, change the interpretation.
The left radical doing their ...spin.
Your comments are completely irrelevant to the context. I claimed none of what you decry.

Do you think the word "aion" means "world"? If so, based on what evidence (other than the fact that the KJV has it as such)?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I think the point of the discussion was that they couldn't understand what Jesus meant until their minds were able to accept that the resurrection Jesus spoke of was real.

Take a single comment and apply it to everything He said. Hmm.

Dino, that statement seems to rise out of a bad experience. I'll try not to use a single comment that way.
Grace and Peace
When Jesus was before the Sanhedrin, the temple He spoke of was His own physical body. In that context, the explanation is provided.

Jesus did not mention "the temple" or "this temple" when He prophesied that "not one stone will be left upon another". Mark 13:2 has Him saying, "Do you see these great buildings?" right before; that makes it clear what He's talking about.

Claiming that He was talking about His physical body is committing eisegesis. :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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The change is known as ...."New....New age religion".... interpretations of scripture. It lends itself to the end time prophecy of....in the end times there will be great deceptions....
Baptism not reqquired
OSAS
Hyper Grace
Universalism,
et al.
Those same folks will maintain that the Bible never changes...so, change the interpretation.
The left radical doing their ...spin.
I agree 100%

We are in the last days

60 million innocent unborn killed annually in the world (Abortion), homsexuals given in marriage, and behind pulpits proclaiming to be God's servants?

Yes they have changed God's words to suit their needs for interpretation in UnGodliness.

How much longer will the Lord let it continue?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I agree 100%

We are in the last days

60 million innocent unborn killed annually in the world (Abortion), homsexuals given in marriage, and behind pulpits proclaiming to be God's servants?

Yes they have changed God's words to suit their needs for interpretation in UnGodliness.

How much longer will the Lord let it continue?
It is fallacious to attribute the evils of today on fellow Christians who simply check the translation against the original languages.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
@PlainWord , do you believe the following verses took place / were fulfilled in the events surrounding 70ad? (just wondering):

Matthew 12:40-42 [and its parallels] -

40 For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

41 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450 (future tense)] in the judgment with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the south will rise up [G1453 (future tense)] in the judgment with [G3326 - meta - accompanying] this the generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Wondering your thoughts as to these passages, and your viewpoint of the "WHEN" of them.

Thanks.


[note: I do not believe these passages are saying they/the righteous will be "resurrected [from the dead]" at the same point in time as the others/unsaved... just that "IN THE JUDGMENT" there is a "with [G3326 - meta - accompanying]" aspect (and 'future tense' to when it was stated by Jesus), seems to me]


Eph4:8 - "Therefore it says: "Having ascended on high, He led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men." ... you believe did not occur till 70ad? Or other verse??
Thanks for your post. v. 40 speaks of Jesus being in the ground (Hades) like Jonah was in the belly of the fish. He is bigger than Jonah and he warned His generation but they would not repent, unlike those in Nineveh. This is why they were only given the sign of Jonah.

In the Ephesians passage Paul is quoting Psalm 68:18. I do not believe it happened as of Paul's writings. If you look at Dan 12 you see the resurrection happens at the time of Israel's great trouble which begins in 66 AD and continues to 73 AD at the fall of Masada.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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I agree 100%

We are in the last days

60 million innocent unborn killed annually in the world (Abortion), homsexuals given in marriage, and behind pulpits proclaiming to be God's servants?

Yes they have changed God's words to suit their needs for interpretation in UnGodliness.

How much longer will the Lord let it continue?
This would put us in the period when Satan has been released and is out deceiving the nations again. Last days cannot be lasting more than half of the age itself and we know that the disciples were in the last days. We see that repeatedly. None of us are changing God's words. You need to look into the mirror, Christ said He would return to His generation. He said it repeatedly in multiple ways. You are disagreeing with Jesus.

As bad as our generation is, it cannot compare to killing the Son of God and worshiping a pagan Caesar as one's God. Remember, idol or false god worship really ticks God off, pretty much more than anything.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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When Jesus was before the Sanhedrin, the temple He spoke of was His own physical body. In that context, the explanation is provided.

Jesus did not mention "the temple" or "this temple" when He prophesied that "not one stone will be left upon another". Mark 13:2 has Him saying, "Do you see these great buildings?" right before; that makes it clear what He's talking about.

Claiming that He was talking about His physical body is committing eisegesis. :)
Ok. I didn't take a comment and apply it to everything. You still felt the need to correct me about it.

The passage discussed by the Apostles, that's the passage I applied Jesus words to.

So, I wasn't projecting my bias onto the meaning of Scriptures or assuming this or that and interpreting the meaning of Scriptures in a false light.

Yet you still felt the need to correct me about that.....l:rolleyes:

You should at least know if the person you're correcting actually made the mistake you feel the need to correct him for. Otherwise you present evidence that you don't understand what you are attempting to correct
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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It is fallacious to attribute the evils of today on fellow Christians who simply check the translation against the original languages.
What Bible Version Do You Put At The Top, Choose (One)

I Chooses The KJV