Jesus was not only GOD but the GOD-MAN.

Lion222 · Aug 14, 2020

Yea there is this guy and he really really loves you.
But you don't want him.
So he forces himself on you and takes you against your will with his irresistible grace.

To me a maligning of Gods character if it in any way it removes your freedom to choose to resist him.

If you have no choice but to embrace Him, then any embrace means nothing.

If you just mean to say that Gods love is so good its hard to resist, then say that.
Irresistible ~ forced love sounds like rape, and that is not God.
But because of a man made doctrine and vain philosophizing and getting away from the words of scripture on t he matter we have this steaming pile of logic to deal with.

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

You certainly have build me a wall. The creation was made for christ and christ to live in the creation. God said christ was his son and he loved him, so he made him a body with bilateral symmetry and so it goes, man was made for the earth and the earth for man, the words christ and man are interchangable here, else as we are currently, some level of aberrant abomination. Christ is the son of god, adam also is the son of god and adam also is christ, but christ is not adam, else you and me and adam would all be copies of christ and not individuals with a self and free will. We (should) do what christ does and love each other as though we were all one, while being everyone of us unique individuals. I know you will not kill me, and you know i will not kill you, but you might enjoy snow, and i might prefer summer and you say tomAto and i say tomOto. So the man christ was God, and everywhere he goes, he is a man? If he wanted to stand on the surface of the sun, he would do so in human form? Not likely... be a crispy dude real quick, but suppose sentient life takes other forms, would he not know every ferengy down to the number of hairs on their ears? would he not know exactly what it meant to be a frog/pig/man, would not the principles of their society be similar to ours? Then christs morality/logic/fellowship model is universal and while he was with them, would he be a man and try to fellowship with them? NO!!! he would be a ferengy. Now childish fantasies aside..... Take the sun for example, you see it, you feel it, it does work and has mass and moves, but all that the sun is, and all it does is not apparent and although it profit you nothing to learn such things, the suns existence extends in a corona beyond the edges of our solar system and though with a glass jar you may trap some of its light (till it gets dark) it still exists all the way to the edges of our solar system. How much more is God than the sun?

Now you are saying It is Christ -- who is is the Creator, and also, This the Creator became a human, but christ said- My father, who you claim as you god.

Friend you should reconsider your condemnation of A&E for this reason- If Christ was the son of God and he was sent by god to do gods will, and if gods will was to help/redeem men and adam was the son of god and he was sent by god to do gods will, and if gods motives never change then what Adam and his wife did was likely an act of compassion, or what sin would you attribute to gods will? As christ said, Your father is the devil and he was a liar from the begining.

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

Dino246 said:

I should leave.

Dino246 · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

You're welcome to stay, but you will be exposed to biblical truth here.

bluto · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

Thank you, Bluto, for your contribution to the discussion. Which is what it is. From this standpoint i will assemble my best response. If you believe the lord of the old testament (jehovah) is god you are required to live according to his laws. In the new testament a posit is made that men cannot achieve this. If you think Paul was the mans man and as pious as a wooden yamaka then know despite being flawless in his execution of the law, christ still found fault in him. Indeed, does it speak to your heart to watch men beat someone to death, according to law? Do you think a man who kills a man is the devils pawn and deserves to be killed? Or do you think a man does not wish to kill a man, but is tempted to do so wrongly. Who then tempted pauls men to kill Stephen?

If you you thought christ was the embodiment of law, in as much as we are all men, made in Gods image all facing the same common problems and have felt the urge to liberate a foul persons eyeballs from their home, but resisted, even if said home wanted to do you harm, in contravention to the law and found a resonance in christs grace and mercy, then your behavior and the law you abide by will be quite different. In fact if you try to enforce those laws, you will die in your sins.

It is a philosophy and a trap to deny God his omnipresence and relegate him to a flesh form. If god fills heaven and earth and cannot reside even in gilded cedar/stone temples his being cannot surely be crammed in one fleshy bipod. It is not a philosophy to say while you are on earth, and you are a man, you are meant to be christ and not paul or even king david. When you emulate christ, even though your operating system is corrupt(and everyone else too) you teach the world or whomever, what is means to be a human being.

The bible is full of goadings some of divinity some of righteousness, some are traps and pits and snares . If jehovah was god and christ is gods son, and judeaism is the worship of jehovah, why dont they use the new testament? Now, i will go one step futher and say, ALL this information and the bible is spurious and esoteric. If you arent using it to understand life and humanity and suffering, but to understand god, all the paths therein end in death. If you want a list of relevant bible verses, i can make one, but it would take a long time so, i started inside the first black cover and read to other one.

You did not address my very specific question jcollins, your AVOIDED it, why? Your claim is that Jesus is not God, I ask you to reconcile how God created all things "BY HIMSELF" and "ALL ALONE" at Isaiah 44:24. Then I gave various verses where Jesus Christ Himself is clearly identified or presented as the creator, how do you reconcile this "apparent" contradiction? My qusetion is not hard, it is logical and all one has to do is use common sense.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Nehemiah6 · Aug 14, 2020

garee said:

Garee, this is an indication of your BIZARRE THEOLOGY.

Jesus is the GOD-MAN -- the Man Christ Jesus -- who is both the Son of Man and the Son of God.

posthuman · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

Yes, He is.

posthuman · Aug 14, 2020

AndyMaleh said:

Which part of a spirit is its 'right hand'?

How does a spirit 'sit'?

How does a spirit have a 'father' or a 'son'?

posthuman · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

You've never read Romans? Galatians?

Well I guess it's good news for you since you said you didn't expect to learn anything from anyone about passages you already know, that the discussion moves to passages you apparently do not know.

posthuman · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

"in Him ALL the fullness of God was pleased to dwell"

Maybe you aren't as wise as you believe yourself to be?
Maybe God is greater than you perceive.

seed_time_harvest · Aug 14, 2020

Lion222 said:

I wasnt sure If your response to my post was In agreement with me or not.
Did you read the post that I was following?

EleventhHour said:

garee said:

seed_time_harvest said:

Sounded to me like we are In agreement but I wasn't sure because of the the statement

awelight · Aug 14, 2020

Corban said:

In your OP, which I appreciated very much in the things you revealed about our Lord Jesus, you made the following observation. Quote

I think that the average murderer, abused person, sinner, soldier and/or thief who turns to Christ, and, as Romans 10:9-10 tells;

9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

... does not need to love Christ as you stipulated for "saving knowledge". Love, as we know, has three words in the Greek. "Eros" - the attraction of, or toward a person who attracts, "philadelphia" - brotherly love or the love between two persons, and "agape" - the divine and perfect love that is God's nature. "Eros" does not come into the equation because we do not know Christ "according to the flesh" (2nd Cor.5:16). So a newly confessed believer must undergo a process whereby he/she falls in love with Christ (philadelphia). Falling in love needs the process of getting to know the person and deeply appreciating their attributes. In fact "philadelphia" is a mystery. Can anyone explain why I love my wife and not any one of the other (eligible) women I have ever met? Be that as it may, the point I make is that loving Christ is not "saving knowledge".

Needless to say to a man of your Bible knowledge, when we are born again, we receive Christ in His fullness to us (Col.2:10). And as we eat Christ, study Him and behold Him, we are transformed (2nd Cor.3:18) and He is "formed" in our hearts (Gal.4:19; Eph.3:17). That is, His nature, over the years, if we nurse a close relationship with Him, permeates us, and towards the end of our lives, we can love Him perfectly with "agape". But, as I pointed out in a previous posting, "agape" is the last stage of "adding attributes" (2n Pet.1:7). In this case it is not that we have fallen in love with Him, but that His nature, which is love, has permeated, or been formed in our souls.

I believe that the process of getting saved is very short and simple - as Romans 10 above says. It is to be noted that the thief on the cross next to Jesus at first joined the mockers (Matt.27:44). It was some time later in that six hour bracket that the one thief had a complete change of heart. As he hung in the same physical agony as our Lord Jesus, he uttered few words. He also did not live long enough to learn of all the things you posted in your OP. But he is immediately accepted by the Lord. "Saving knowledge" is not "comprehensive knowledge". It is the sudden dawning, or realization, of Who this Person Jesus is, and the subsequent confession of it.

Now I thank you for the kind words but you seem to want to be argumentative about this point. I already said clearly, that these points were given as a way to TEST ones relationship to Christ. if one failed the TEST then he/she would not be a Christian. Very simple concept. I was not talking about what is required for salvation. Take the thief on the cross, how much time did he have to learn the things of his Savior? Hardly any, that we know but he was still saved.

Again, this is for those who profess this or that, so as, to test themselves as Scripture commands:

(2Cor. 13:5) Try your own selves, whether ye are in the faith; prove your own selves. Or know ye not as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? unless indeed ye be reprobate.

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

posthuman said:

This is a discussion forum, its come as you are. If God chose to reveal himself on earth as a man and that was the only form of sentience apparent to an observer, and if christ is image of God as a man on earth, how else could it be described?

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

posthuman said:

Said i did not expect to enlighten anyone or learn anything new from a text i was familiar with.

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

posthuman said:

Thank you for your elucidation

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

bluto said:

You did not address my very specific question jcollins, your AVOIDED it, why? Your claim is that Jesus is not God, I ask you to reconcile how God created all things "BY HIMSELF" and "ALL ALONE" at Isaiah 44:24. Then I gave various verses where Jesus Christ Himself is clearly identified or presented as the creator, how do you reconcile this "apparent" contradiction? My qusetion is not hard, it is logical and all one has to do is use common sense.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

what was your question?

Rosemaryx · Aug 14, 2020

awelight said:

This reminds me off the The Parable of the ten virgins...
I was listening last night to a sermon on it , and it really was an eye opener for me...

Five saved , and five thinking they were saved , only to have the door closed on them with words from our Master " I never knew you "
...xox...

jcollins · Aug 14, 2020

Dino246 said:

Beware the scoundrel, He winks with his eye, signals with his feet, motions with his fingers, he always stirs up dissension with deceit in his heart.
(sigh) then i guess youll say- If you have raced with men on foot and they have worn you out, how will you compete with horses?

bluto · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

Really jcollins, did you not read what I said/ask? Your trying to do to much and its taken its toll on you. Your addressing to many questions from others and it is obvious you cannot keep up. Take your time and thing.

My question is this? You say Jesus is NOT God. If He is not God like you say then why does John 1;3 say that "All things have been created by Him? How can this man create anything since only God is the creator?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dino246 · Aug 14, 2020

jcollins said:

Fallacy: non sequitur.

If you want to have an intelligent discussion, using scriptural quotes as insults won't get you there.

Jesus was not only GOD but the GOD-MAN.

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