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So are you saved from the pena
You don't have to . I know many who hold to Calvinism without ever reading any of his work or even realising they were reformed . Thats because we can easily be influenced by the church we attend, the company we keep ,the teachers we listen to and less bible we study ourselves.
You don't have to . I know many who hold to Calvinism without ever reading any of his work or even realising they were reformed . Thats because we can easily be influenced by the church we attend, the company we keep ,the teachers we listen to and less bible we study ourselves.
You cannot believe in the things of the Spirit until you hear, and understand spiritual things. Only his "sheep" (those who have already been borne again with the new spiritual life. The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, before he has been born again, does not have spiritual faith, and thinks the things of the Spirit are foolishness. Believing spiritual things is not the cause of your salvation, it is a product of already having been saved.
So born again may murder, adultery No need repent but still go to heaven?
1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
I would not say it the way you do, though there is some truth in what you say:
Here is how I would say it:
The believer may still commit sins after he is born again, but when/if he does sin, he is forgiven because he is believing in the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. It is incongruent and incompatible for the believer to sin - and John clearly says in I John 3 that the believer will not practice sin.
Here is how I would say it:
The believer may still commit sins after he is born again, but when/if he does sin, he is forgiven because he is believing in the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. It is incongruent and incompatible for the believer to sin - and John clearly says in I John 3 that the believer will not practice sin.
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Sav
Saved, according to Greek interpretation means = delivered. When we are first born again, we are babes in Christ depending upon the milk of the word to feed us. as we grow in knowledge, we gradually grow into maturity and can feed upon the meat of the word. We are delivered from our lack of knowledge when we are mature enough to understand the righteousness of God, and are not going about trying to establish our own righteousness by our good works. Saved in this verse does not have reference to eternal deliverance, but a deliverance we can receive when we began to believe upon the righteousness of God. Believing is not the cause of our eternal deliverance, but is a product of already having been born of the Spirit in regeneration. The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) until he is born again, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.
Saved, according to Greek interpretation means = delivered. When we are first born again, we are babes in Christ depending upon the milk of the word to feed us. as we grow in knowledge, we gradually grow into maturity and can feed upon the meat of the word. We are delivered from our lack of knowledge when we are mature enough to understand the righteousness of God, and are not going about trying to establish our own righteousness by our good works. Saved in this verse does not have reference to eternal deliverance, but a deliverance we can receive when we began to believe upon the righteousness of God. Believing is not the cause of our eternal deliverance, but is a product of already having been born of the Spirit in regeneration. The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) until he is born again, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.
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I read FGCook when they said, because Christ died to wash away the sins of those he died for.
That ideology isn't Biblical. It is representative of Calvinism and those groups that teach the tenets Calvin did and that are compiled in what is called, TULIP. Each letter defining the whole of the meaning of what Calvin believed about Jesus and what it means to be saved according to Calvin.
One of those false beliefs is that Jesus only died for people God chose to save before he created people who would need saving.
This of course necessitates accepting the converse, if one believes that first part. And that is, that conversely, God also chose to create people whom he would let to die damned in their sins because he didn't choose to save them before he created people.
People who believe that nonsensical unbiblical teaching of course are absolutely certain they're one of the lucky saved ones.I didn't know it when I joined, but I happened upon a Christian forum that was wholly committed to Calvinism but didn't inform people beforehand. I didn't walk that talk and they banned me.
Calvinist people represent the deadly sin of pride. And arrogance as well. From my experience there, they'll never change their mind about what they think is Calvin's Jesus because they're certain they're saved and you're not.
That ideology isn't Biblical. It is representative of Calvinism and those groups that teach the tenets Calvin did and that are compiled in what is called, TULIP. Each letter defining the whole of the meaning of what Calvin believed about Jesus and what it means to be saved according to Calvin.
One of those false beliefs is that Jesus only died for people God chose to save before he created people who would need saving.
This of course necessitates accepting the converse, if one believes that first part. And that is, that conversely, God also chose to create people whom he would let to die damned in their sins because he didn't choose to save them before he created people.
People who believe that nonsensical unbiblical teaching of course are absolutely certain they're one of the lucky saved ones.I didn't know it when I joined, but I happened upon a Christian forum that was wholly committed to Calvinism but didn't inform people beforehand. I didn't walk that talk and they banned me.
Calvinist people represent the deadly sin of pride. And arrogance as well. From my experience there, they'll never change their mind about what they think is Calvin's Jesus because they're certain they're saved and you're not.
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Practice sin is to continually walk in our fleshly nature. The born again person has a new heart that can be pricked and made to feel guilty. When a born again person yields to the temptation of sin, the Holy Spirit within him pricks his conscience and causes him to repent. Before he repents, he does not have fellowship with God, because God will not fellowship sin, but he still has not lost his eternal inheritance. When he repents, and God forgives him, he is back in good fellowship with God. This is the foundation of OSAS.
A good comparison of the stony heart and the heart of flesh is Acts where the Jews that Peter was preaching to that they crucified Jesus, were "pricked in their heart", signifying that they had the soft flesh heart of the regenerated persons, and said, "what must we do". Stephen was preaching the same message to those men that were "cut to the (stony) heart", and stoned Stephen to death.
The heart of the natural man (1 Cor 2:14) before he has been regenerated is a stony heart that has no spiritual conscience to be pricked.
A good comparison of the stony heart and the heart of flesh is Acts where the Jews that Peter was preaching to that they crucified Jesus, were "pricked in their heart", signifying that they had the soft flesh heart of the regenerated persons, and said, "what must we do". Stephen was preaching the same message to those men that were "cut to the (stony) heart", and stoned Stephen to death.
The heart of the natural man (1 Cor 2:14) before he has been regenerated is a stony heart that has no spiritual conscience to be pricked.
First of all, as I have told many on this forum, I have never consulted John Calvin's writings, and from what I have been told about them, there are beliefs that he has, that I do not agree with.
The truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught is found in the harmonized, divinely inspired, scriptures. Scripture proves scripture, and should be the only source of counsel that we need to glean the truth of Christ's doctrine, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, and the assistance of a Greek concordance. If all of the scriptures do not harmonize with each other, we do not understand the full truth of the doctrine.
Sorry about my post being so long.
About your remark of who is delivered eternally, and who is not, we cannot determine that. King David, because he ordered Israel (God's elect) to be numbered, caused thousands of the people of Israel to lose their lives, as punishment from God, for trying to number Israel.
I am assuming that most of the people on this forum are of the elect, otherwise, they would not be on this forum trying to defend what they think is the doctrine of Christ. Many are called to be God's adopted children, few are chosen to be revealed the doctrine of Christ.. This is probably where you determine the boasting to come from, but, remember, if all of the scriptures do not harmonize, then you do not understand the doctrine.
The scriptures tell us that the truths, contained within the scriptures about the doctrine of Christ, are hidden from most of God's elect, in which I fail to understand God's reasonings in the matter, except what Matthew tells us, in 11:25, that they are hidden from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes.
What we should be doing on this forum, is to be discussing the scriptures, calmly, and with respect, for the purpose of trying to harmonize the scriptures, so that, those of God's elect, that are living on the milk of the word, can mature enough to enjoy the meat (doctrine) of the word.
This is why Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the "lost sheep" (babes in Christ of the elect), of the house of Israel. The "house of Israel" is "the house of Jacob" (God changed Jacob's name to Israel, Gen 33:28), Jacob is representative of God's elect Rom 9:11, and consists of every tongue, and kindred, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9.
Some of God's sheep are lost because they do not have full knowledge of God's righteousness, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works Rom 10:1-3.
The truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught is found in the harmonized, divinely inspired, scriptures. Scripture proves scripture, and should be the only source of counsel that we need to glean the truth of Christ's doctrine, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, and the assistance of a Greek concordance. If all of the scriptures do not harmonize with each other, we do not understand the full truth of the doctrine.
Sorry about my post being so long.
About your remark of who is delivered eternally, and who is not, we cannot determine that. King David, because he ordered Israel (God's elect) to be numbered, caused thousands of the people of Israel to lose their lives, as punishment from God, for trying to number Israel.
I am assuming that most of the people on this forum are of the elect, otherwise, they would not be on this forum trying to defend what they think is the doctrine of Christ. Many are called to be God's adopted children, few are chosen to be revealed the doctrine of Christ.. This is probably where you determine the boasting to come from, but, remember, if all of the scriptures do not harmonize, then you do not understand the doctrine.
The scriptures tell us that the truths, contained within the scriptures about the doctrine of Christ, are hidden from most of God's elect, in which I fail to understand God's reasonings in the matter, except what Matthew tells us, in 11:25, that they are hidden from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes.
What we should be doing on this forum, is to be discussing the scriptures, calmly, and with respect, for the purpose of trying to harmonize the scriptures, so that, those of God's elect, that are living on the milk of the word, can mature enough to enjoy the meat (doctrine) of the word.
This is why Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the "lost sheep" (babes in Christ of the elect), of the house of Israel. The "house of Israel" is "the house of Jacob" (God changed Jacob's name to Israel, Gen 33:28), Jacob is representative of God's elect Rom 9:11, and consists of every tongue, and kindred, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9.
Some of God's sheep are lost because they do not have full knowledge of God's righteousness, and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works Rom 10:1-3.
I think the fracture arrives in attempting to reason the matter of scripture, if someone presents their personal faith foundation from the standpoint of Jesus Christ died to wash away the sins of those he died for.
The exclusivity of that remark in itself belies the idea and teaching that Jesus did not, as we are told by God, die to take away the sins of the world.
Further, I have read others account that our works are not concomitant with our Salvation. Salvation is by the grace of God, period. However, it is wrong and misleading to impart in any wise that our work in God's name means nothing as regards our Salvation. Numerous scripture speak of this. Faith without works is dead, for instance. And in Revelation we are told when the Book of Life is opened and we are judged, we shall be judged by our works.
I would think it then ill advised to insist in any way that works mean nothing for nor to the Christian.
The exclusivity of that remark in itself belies the idea and teaching that Jesus did not, as we are told by God, die to take away the sins of the world.
Further, I have read others account that our works are not concomitant with our Salvation. Salvation is by the grace of God, period. However, it is wrong and misleading to impart in any wise that our work in God's name means nothing as regards our Salvation. Numerous scripture speak of this. Faith without works is dead, for instance. And in Revelation we are told when the Book of Life is opened and we are judged, we shall be judged by our works.
I would think it then ill advised to insist in any way that works mean nothing for nor to the Christian.
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lots of people believe they're saved and others are not. not a big deal (i mean it's very common) just what people seem to believe naturally -- that they are the saved and people in other denominations, Christianities, belief systems, Religions, ect. aren't.
many kinds of Christians and many Christians seem unable to change their minds very often also, perhaps even unable to consider other's beliefs objectively very much.
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Well, maybe it can be said that Christianity is a faith of pride and arrogance. After all, in a world tallying billions of individuals, all whom are presumed damned unless or until they are saved, and with the numerous religious faith and practices in the world and among those people as a whole, the Christian faith teaches we are the only one's who will be saved from eternal damnation because of what we believe. While all others are not. And thus, are damned.
Having that belief instilled first, perhaps it is a natural transference to go from being in total one of the whole wide world of the damned, unto the unique community or class of the saved, and to then take that elite identity in comparison to all peoples left in the world not saved, and look upon one another with that microcosmic pointer of judgment from the standpoint of self toward others.
For instance, the judgment that is put forth regarding the Roman Catholic. The judgment put forth regarding any denomination at all from the standpoint of the individual levying judgment from their unique understanding and perspective of one, not them. (that they judge).
Christians are not nor shall ever in this flesh be perfect. We're forgiven. We're also imbued with reason and the ability of discernment, if we're blessed. And in some teachings, like those that say, unless you're this denomination you're doomed, we're able to discern that's hogwash. And the hog is no better for it.
Thinking that God pre-selected individuals to save from his judgment of their damnation before anything came to exist at all, and that Jesus died only to insure those pre-selected individuals would be saved of God, is taking the words of God and twisting them into something all knowing God saw coming but doesn't have to agree with.
How do I know that for a fact?
Because he told me so.
John 3:16.
Sometimes, thinking the comprehensive concession that we can all get along when we're Christian just isn't true. Because quite frankly, false teachers that lead to false belief by believers does not a Christian make.
Just the opposite in fact. They're still condemned in their sins because they have not found the true Christ.
And that is due to the false teacher.
How do we save them from that?
We speak up!
As Jesus proved in his day, the truth is hard for some to hear. Harder for some to bear. But in the end if it saves a soul, it is worth the effort and the sting the ego suffered for that little while.
Having that belief instilled first, perhaps it is a natural transference to go from being in total one of the whole wide world of the damned, unto the unique community or class of the saved, and to then take that elite identity in comparison to all peoples left in the world not saved, and look upon one another with that microcosmic pointer of judgment from the standpoint of self toward others.
For instance, the judgment that is put forth regarding the Roman Catholic. The judgment put forth regarding any denomination at all from the standpoint of the individual levying judgment from their unique understanding and perspective of one, not them. (that they judge).
Christians are not nor shall ever in this flesh be perfect. We're forgiven. We're also imbued with reason and the ability of discernment, if we're blessed. And in some teachings, like those that say, unless you're this denomination you're doomed, we're able to discern that's hogwash. And the hog is no better for it.
Thinking that God pre-selected individuals to save from his judgment of their damnation before anything came to exist at all, and that Jesus died only to insure those pre-selected individuals would be saved of God, is taking the words of God and twisting them into something all knowing God saw coming but doesn't have to agree with.
How do I know that for a fact?
Because he told me so.
John 3:16.
Sometimes, thinking the comprehensive concession that we can all get along when we're Christian just isn't true. Because quite frankly, false teachers that lead to false belief by believers does not a Christian make.
Just the opposite in fact. They're still condemned in their sins because they have not found the true Christ.
And that is due to the false teacher.
How do we save them from that?
We speak up!
As Jesus proved in his day, the truth is hard for some to hear. Harder for some to bear. But in the end if it saves a soul, it is worth the effort and the sting the ego suffered for that little while.
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