Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[EleventhHour]

Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So does that mean that you used to be a righteous sinner whom God loved, but other sinners were sinful sinners whom God hated?
There are good sinners that Jesus died for, and bad sinners that He didn't die for because they were bad.
Am I understanding this teaching correctly...?

Now SoulWeaver let us not forget.....

...........the bad sinners are denied the effectual calling and created for destruction because this is the sovereign will of God and this gives all glory to God.

 

[J-T]

You accuse but you clearly have not grasped what I am stating so you accuse falsely.

The reality is no one prior to Luther separated sanctification and justification or set such a sharp divide between faith and works, and even after Luther the necessity of a changed life is apparent in just about every theologians assessment to such a degree that the only reason to set that sharp divide is polemics.

I won't get into the issues of Biblical authority other than to say I highly doubt you're using the 1611 KJV but more likely an offshoot of one of the revisions from Oxford or Cambridge.

I really don't follow what you're trying to say in the second chunk as it appears to be rather stream of consciousness rather than a coherent thought.

You are entitled to your opinion and comments as to what I posted, however, you cannot escape the Biblical truth that there is no mixing of the Gospel with works; That is works salvation no matter how or who spins it. I have been actively involved in the Counter-Cult Ministry for 20 years, have a full scope of knowledge of how the various groups operate, and can also provide you with source quotations if you prefer. This is no game to me, as the Apostle Paul, after having made it so precisely clear in his epistles that there is no mixing of works with the Gospel, also stated and wrote by inspiration of The Holy Ghost, these words:

Galations 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galations 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The words of God supersede and override any words of men, including any before Luther, after Luther, and/or in between, as well as Luther himself.

The groups that I mentioned are all prime examples of Satan's ministers that preach "another Jesus", "another gospel", with that "other spirit" that is the spirit of Antichrist a.ka. the spirit of iniquity a.k.a. the spirit of error, and are also those that turn the grace of God into lasciviousness with their teachings of doctrines of devils, along with other abominations, including the use of subliminal images of idols embedded into their literature, as well as large images of idols, such as the image of the idol of Molech that was set up by the Vatican shortly before the alleged C-19 outbreak; Not excluding the fact of Pope Francis' (Jorge) call for all religions to unite together toward the goal of the One World Religion, as he heads the group C.O.E.X.I.S.T. which includes Hindus, Buddhists, Bahai, Muslims, and many other groups. Moreover, there is video of Pope Jorge (Francis) giving a speech on this very subject, even holding an image of the idol of Buddha. There are also other videos of his meetings with the Dalie Lama, receiving Buddhist blessings; meeting with Muslims, and even kissing the feet of the representatives of the false prophet group.

Do you have any 'real time' Biblical discernment concerning false prophets and false teachers and how to identify them, as well as recognize their antichrist doctrines of devils?

If you want to continue preaching and teaching Gospel + Works, then you are doing so at your own peril. You have been aptly warned and rebuked; Unless you repent of this heresy, you will face The Lord on Judgement Day, because that is "another gospel" and is NOT of God!

 

[SoulWeaver]

Now SoulWeaver let us not forget.....

...........the bad sinners are denied the effectual calling and created for destruction because this is the sovereign will of God and this gives all glory to God.

I don't know how people reconcile it. It's why I asked that question, because underlying premises make no sense. One sinner has no elevated status over another, a sinner is a sinner.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't know how people reconcile it. It's why I asked that question, because underlying premises make no sense. One sinner has no elevated status over another, a sinner is a sinner.

Well the goto verse is Romans 9:15, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

along with "who are you to question God" .. Romans 9:20

Repeat ad nauseam and stay on the script.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

You are entitled to your opinion and comments as to what I posted, however, you cannot escape the Biblical truth that there is no mixing of the Gospel with works;

Stop being a hypocrite. You along with 99.9999% on this form do the same. You are the one mixing the Gospel with works. Why? Because anything and everything that is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified, is judged by God the Father as works of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[J-T]

Stop being a hypocrite. You along with 99.9999% on this form do the same. You are the one mixing the Gospel with works. Why? Because anything and everything that is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified, is judged by God the Father as works of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23)

I'm not the one going around preaching Gospel plus works which equals works salvation, as well as posting Jimmy Swaggart quotes, and falsely teaching people that Born Again Christians can lose their salvation. So you see, I'm not the hypocrite here. If I were in your shoes, I would be offended too, if someone pointed out the fact that there's something most terribly wrong with Jimmy Swaggart. But, on the other hand, I would also be grateful that someone took the time out of their day to do so. I wouldn't want to face The Lord on Judgement Day and give an account of why I followed after a deceiving false teacher that exalted himself above Apostle Paul, as Jimmy has done before the eyes and ears of millions of viewers of SBN, as well as blasphemously equate The Holy Spirit to being electricity or lighting just as the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses have done.

Since you took a moment to respond to what I had posted to someone else, perhaps you won't mind following through on testing out the information that I had provided comcerning Jimmy Swaggart, and if you can prove the information to be a lie, then I will have to hide my head in shame and eat crow. But we both know that I won't have to do that, now don't we? Are you really wanting to risk your soul for all eternity, by knowingly following after a deceptive false apostle after being warned and supplied with information, as well as encouragement to repent while there is still time? Please, go ahead and review the facts; I will be glad to discuss them with you. I also included the videos with some mild editing of what I had originally wrote to the other person, to include you with the invitation to read the passages provided:
_____________________________________
You are "off" because of listening too much of the erroroneous doctrines of the Swaggarts. It has been my hope by asking you questions with properly posting contextual passages that you might reconsider your position in following them by repenting to exclusively follow after The Lord Jesus Christ and His chosen Apostles with prayerful reading of The Holy Bible without the "lens" of the Swaggarts.

Have you noticed the red & black color scheme used at the Swaggarts' Church? Did you also notice the same colors are used on the set of Francis & Friends? I am going to tell you straight up that those are the Satanists' choice of colors. I just did a quick search just to see if I could find some simple information to share as tangible evidence for you, and a lot of sites pop up, including those of the enemy's camp.

This link is per the search results:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Satanic+red+&+black+colors&atb=v123-2__&ia=web

Be sure to take a moment to examine the pictures of how the red and black, and yes white colors are used, as you paruse the info. I forgot to consider mentioning the "white" color used on the crosses that are on the floor, in the Swaggarts' Church, pointing upward to the octagon stage. There is a reason "why" the Swaggarts' chose those colors along with Jimmy's use of the Satanic hand signs.
_____________________________________
If you truly love Jesus, I would like to encourage you to prayerfully read 2Corinthians 11

There is a reason why I share the information that I post. This is not easy come random thought off of the cusp of my head out of the air. These are issues and subjects that have been thoroughly researched, as there are many false prophets and many false teachers that masquerade as Christians, true to The Lord's holy words in Matthew 7:13-27 as well as Apostle Peter wrote in 2Peter 2-3, and Apostle John in 1John 2, 4; 2John; 3John

The Lord and His chosen Apostles have given us lots of warnings. No one will be without excuse when it comes time to face their Maker.

Below are a couple of excellent videos produced by discerning Christians to expose the Swaggarts. Something also worth noting is that Jimmy Swaggart also has a Martial Arts Class on Campus, even in despite of sober warning and rebuke from Jim Nations. Furthermore, Gabe Swaggart incorporated Yin Yang into one of his sermons. A simple short per martial arts is that just like Yoga, (both are practices of divination) it is for the inviting in of devils for possession, and the Yin Yang, while there are a variety of Occult definitions, is based upon the sharing of the darkness with the light, and is 100% complete antichrist in defiance of 2Corinthians 6:14-18; Also read Acts 15:19-29 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14

 

[SoulWeaver]

Well the goto verse is Romans 9:15, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

along with "who are you to question God" .. Romans 9:20

Repeat ad nauseam and stay on the script.

Well I will write for the record... put it into context for a change...

"He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy and He hardens whom He hardens". As to hardening the Pharaoh which is mentioned, God knew through His foreknowledge what choices would Pharaoh make and what kind of man would he be, and put him in that place to achieve His purposes through doing what he willed, since God knew he would disobey. That doesn't mean that God forced the Pharaoh to be evil or made him more and more evil, if so, it is attributing sin to God. Hardening the heart more and more came as a natural consequence, that not listening to God causes a downward spiral of spiritual deterioration, thus God did not cause evil, the Pharaoh caused it himself; still, it can be rightfully said that God hardened him, because it's what you reap when you don't listen to God, and God dispenses the same reward to those who do not listen. Even the believers are warned "do not quench the Spirit" so we don't grieve Him in backsliding, the deterioration in one without Holy Spirit seal must be really rapid.

And "who are you to question God", total contextual dishonesty... that doesn't apply to us, because we don't believe that God actually does such (intentionally made some people to be destroyed), but some (not us) do believe this. We don't come from the point of maliciously questioning God, but from confidence into His kind character. Apostle Paul's whole point towards some who came with insolent questionings is that God owes us nothing, and if He wished to make some to destroy - of course - like Paul says, He has the right. Paul then continues with "but what if told you...?" and he's about to blow their minds. He tells them that God extended grace to the vessels of destruction, so hush, children! Conclusion: it's evil to open mouth in questioning God, to begin with, since He's our Creator, and especially considering the grace extended to all mankind.

The vessels of mercy are chosen FROM AMONG the vessels of destruction. Hence thanks to Jesus enduring us, it became possible for a vessel fitted for destruction to become one of mercy. God endured the vessels of destruction, and died for sinners. He didn't die for the nice pure vessels and the righteous. All vessels were fit for destruction to begin with. All sinned to begin with.

 

[Bbrdrd]

You are entitled to your opinion and comments as to what I posted, however, you cannot escape the Biblical truth that there is no mixing of the Gospel with works; That is works salvation no matter how or who spins it. I have been actively involved in the Counter-Cult Ministry for 20 years, have a full scope of knowledge of how the various groups operate, and can also provide you with source quotations if you prefer. This is no game to me, as the Apostle Paul, after having made it so precisely clear in his epistles that there is no mixing of works with the Gospel, also stated and wrote by inspiration of The Holy Ghost, these words:

Galations 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galations 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The words of God supersede and override any words of men, including any before Luther, after Luther, and/or in between, as well as Luther himself.

The groups that I mentioned are all prime examples of Satan's ministers that preach "another Jesus", "another gospel", with that "other spirit" that is the spirit of Antichrist a.ka. the spirit of iniquity a.k.a. the spirit of error, and are also those that turn the grace of God into lasciviousness with their teachings of doctrines of devils, along with other abominations, including the use of subliminal images of idols embedded into their literature, as well as large images of idols, such as the image of the idol of Molech that was set up by the Vatican shortly before the alleged C-19 outbreak; Not excluding the fact of Pope Francis' (Jorge) call for all religions to unite together toward the goal of the One World Religion, as he heads the group C.O.E.X.I.S.T. which includes Hindus, Buddhists, Bahai, Muslims, and many other groups. Moreover, there is video of Pope Jorge (Francis) giving a speech on this very subject, even holding an image of the idol of Buddha. There are also other videos of his meetings with the Dalie Lama, receiving Buddhist blessings; meeting with Muslims, and even kissing the feet of the representatives of the false prophet group.

Do you have any 'real time' Biblical discernment concerning false prophets and false teachers and how to identify them, as well as recognize their antichrist doctrines of devils?

If you want to continue preaching and teaching Gospel + Works, then you are doing so at your own peril. You have been aptly warned and rebuked; Unless you repent of this heresy, you will face The Lord on Judgement Day, because that is "another gospel" and is NOT of God!

Again with blatant accusations because you do not understand.

The reason I mentioned Luther is because the particular interpretation of Paul you are pushing wasn't present in the church for 1600 years. You risk being among the number who twists Paul's letters to the point of lawlessness when you fail to acknowledge that faith is an action.

You keep going on these completely unrelated diatribes and never even come close to actually interacting with my points so I think this conversation has run its course.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

I'm not the one going around preaching Gospel plus works which equals works salvation, as well as posting Jimmy Swaggart quotes, and falsely teaching people that Born Again Christians can lose their salvation. So you see, I'm not the hypocrite here. If I were in your shoes, I would be offended too, if someone pointed out the fact that there's something most terribly wrong with Jimmy Swaggart. But, on the other hand, I would also be grateful that someone took the time out of their day to do so. I wouldn't want to face The Lord on Judgement Day and give an account of why I followed after a deceiving false teacher that exalted himself above Apostle Paul, as Jimmy has done before the eyes and ears of millions of viewers of SBN, as well as blasphemously equate The Holy Spirit to being electricity or lighting just as the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses have done.

Since you took a moment to respond to what I had posted to someone else, perhaps you won't mind following through on testing out the information that I had provided comcerning Jimmy Swaggart, and if you can prove the information to be a lie, then I will have to hide my head in shame and eat crow. But we both know that I won't have to do that, now don't we? Are you really wanting to risk your soul for all eternity, by knowingly following after a deceptive false apostle after being warned and supplied with information, as well as encouragement to repent while there is still time? Please, go ahead and review the facts; I will be glad to discuss them with you. I also included the videos with some mild editing of what I had originally wrote to the other person, to include you with the invitation to read the passages provided:
_____________________________________
You are "off" because of listening too much of the erroroneous doctrines of the Swaggarts. It has been my hope by asking you questions with properly posting contextual passages that you might reconsider your position in following them by repenting to exclusively follow after The Lord Jesus Christ and His chosen Apostles with prayerful reading of The Holy Bible without the "lens" of the Swaggarts.

Have you noticed the red & black color scheme used at the Swaggarts' Church? Did you also notice the same colors are used on the set of Francis & Friends? I am going to tell you straight up that those are the Satanists' choice of colors. I just did a quick search just to see if I could find some simple information to share as tangible evidence for you, and a lot of sites pop up, including those of the enemy's camp.

This link is per the search results:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Satanic+red+&+black+colors&atb=v123-2__&ia=web

Be sure to take a moment to examine the pictures of how the red and black, and yes white colors are used, as you paruse the info. I forgot to consider mentioning the "white" color used on the crosses that are on the floor, in the Swaggarts' Church, pointing upward to the octagon stage. There is a reason "why" the Swaggarts' chose those colors along with Jimmy's use of the Satanic hand signs.
_____________________________________
If you truly love Jesus, I would like to encourage you to prayerfully read 2Corinthians 11

There is a reason why I share the information that I post. This is not easy come random thought off of the cusp of my head out of the air. These are issues and subjects that have been thoroughly researched, as there are many false prophets and many false teachers that masquerade as Christians, true to The Lord's holy words in Matthew 7:13-27 as well as Apostle Peter wrote in 2Peter 2-3, and Apostle John in 1John 2, 4; 2John; 3John

The Lord and His chosen Apostles have given us lots of warnings. No one will be without excuse when it comes time to face their Maker.

Below are a couple of excellent videos produced by discerning Christians to expose the Swaggarts. Something also worth noting is that Jimmy Swaggart also has a Martial Arts Class on Campus, even in despite of sober warning and rebuke from Jim Nations. Furthermore, Gabe Swaggart incorporated Yin Yang into one of his sermons. A simple short per martial arts is that just like Yoga, (both are practices of divination) it is for the inviting in of devils for possession, and the Yin Yang, while there are a variety of Occult definitions, is based upon the sharing of the darkness with the light, and is 100% complete antichrist in defiance of 2Corinthians 6:14-18; Also read Acts 15:19-29 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14

My true brothers and sisters in Christ come to the Altar by Grace through Faith in Christ and Him Crucified as a Living Sacrifice, holy acceptable unto God our reasonable service. You along with the 99.9999% come with your works (law) and are rejected. Because you are rejected, you murder us as Cain did Abel. (Type and shadow)

You have proven that all things have not come new to you as a new creation. So, who are you...I know and my brothers and sisters know who you are.

 

[J-T]

Again with blatant accusations because you do not understand.

The reason I mentioned Luther is because the particular interpretation of Paul you are pushing wasn't present in the church for 1600 years. You risk being among the number who twists Paul's letters to the point of lawlessness when you fail to acknowledge that faith is an action.

You keep going on these completely unrelated diatribes and never even come close to actually interacting with my points so I think this conversation has run its course.

You are the one that accused me of presenting a "half gospel" that excluded works.

What part of this passage do you disagree with?:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Where do you get "gospel plus works" to twist it into a 'complete gospel'?

Now, what if a man does absolutely no work whatsoever at all, but believes on Jesus! Would you say that man is not saved? What did Apostle Paul write by inspiration of The Holy Ghost in Romans 4:5? Let's take a look at that verse to see if it is a prime example of salvation that is solely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ;

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[J-T]

My true brothers and sisters in Christ come to the Altar by Grace through Faith in Christ and Him Crucified as a Living Sacrifice, holy acceptable unto God our reasonable service. You along with the 99.9999% come with your works (law) and are rejected. Because you are rejected, you murder us as Cain did Abel. (Type and shadow)

You have proven that all things have not come new to you as a new creation. So, who are you...I know and my brothers and sisters know who you are.

There is nowhere on this thread, nor anywhere in this Forum where I taught works of the Law as means for salvation. I understand why you are desperate to do what you are doing to defend the Swaggart Cult. Followers of Jim Jones did similarly, and much worse to those that opposed that evil man. Do you suppose that it's a coincidence that Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Jones share the same first name? Swaggart is a false Apostle, as Jones was a false Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hello Rosemaryx,

What a great thing to be pondering indeed. To answer this completely and in a way that honors God, would take up a good part of Holy Scripture. It is also the truth that the world hates the most. Why? Because, to understand it means, that the person is willing to come to grips with the fact that everything God is doing, is for HIS glory and NOT for ours. His people are the partakers of His eternal plan but not the sole focus of His plan. The focus of His plan is His Son. Why? Because He loved His Son above all else. His eternal plan, given in part, in His revealed Word, is the expression of His love for His Son. That plan included giving all things unto Him.

(Rom 11:36) For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen.

Included in this plan, is the redemption of fallen man. For the express purpose of giving Him (Christ), an eternal gift of loving worshipers. The one thing we know, by studying the Scriptures, this was never fully obtained because of the hardness of man's heart. Therefore, the Father Chose some from before the foundation of the world.

(Eph 1:4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

These individuals, who are only known by the Father and the Son, until it becomes manifest by the witness and life of the believer, for others to see. For proof of this choosing out, let's look at the following verses:

(John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

(the better translation here would be, "no man is able to come to me"). Not that a person can't come to Christ but that a man is not able of his own self to come. This harmonizes with Rom. 1:21-23; 3:10-12. The main point to remember is "There is NONE that seeks after God.". Not that man does not seek after a god, but not the God of Scripture, as portrayed in the Scriptures. Just as he often wants to create a savior that is not the Savior as portrayed in Scriptures. Also, in this verse, note where our Lord said, "....the Father who sent me DRAW him..." (In the greek text, the word translated "draw" is "elkusn". This word carries the meaning of: To lay hold of, to pull or drag.) This is where the New Birth comes in. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us into repentance and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Let's look a little further at God's choosing of some for His Son. Note what our Lord said to the religionist of his day, which still applies today.

(John 6:36,37) But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(John 6:65) And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

Now again, our Lord makes it clear, that He has a particular group in mind, He knows them, they know Him and most importantly, He is dying for them and not for the whole world. This is only one area of Scripture that states this great and hated truth by those of the world that can't hear His voice.

(John 10:26-28) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

Many people want to shove these great truths back into darkness, by saying, well the audience was Jewish and therefore the Sheep were Jewish and this has nothing to do with us gentiles. DON'T be fooled by this. Our Lord said He laid down His life for the Sheep. By their reckoning, putting this all on Jewish ground to be ignored, then non of the Gentiles were included in Christ's death and this would be foolishness.

Now as to the often quoted and abused John 3:16, The use of "world" here is limited in it's scope but I am not going into that now; rather I would like to point out the "whosoevers" of this verse. Based on what I have been writing to you, who do you think the whosoevers are? This verse by the way is not a promise for the future. While it does hold true that those who are believing shall have eternal life. The verb tense, in the greek text, for the word translated "believes" is not in the Future Tense. It is a Present Active Indicative Verb, so our Lord was stating a fact, not a promise. He was saying then, "whoever is believing (right now as he was talking), shall (future), have everlasting life.

So that brings us back to Christ's high priestly prayer of John 17. Jesus did not pray for the "world" because He had nothing to say, to His Father, in regards to the world system or those that were not His own. Plain and simple fact which the world hates. Only the Sheep readily accept this Truth and do not kick against it because we, the sheep, know it is not about us, it is about our Great and Glorious Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord. For we know that God does as he pleases and thank God for that.

So much wrong here I do not even know where to begin.

1. you stated that god planned to redeem fallen man, well of course, as scripture says even when we were sinners, Christ died for us (you even mocked dusky when he said Christ died for sinners, (sinful world) and said Your conversation was done, it was done, it was done because you have an issue with Christ dieting for sinners,
2. you left out the part in John 6: where Jesus said it is the will of the father that whoever sees and believes has eternal life, you love to remind us how no one can come unless God draws. And we all agree, without Gods intervention and help, no one would be saved, but you leave out that it takes faith in him to fulfill The will of the father
3. you also like to leave part of John 3 out, Jesus makes it clear who those are that are saved, those who BELIEVE, they will never died but live forever, as he said , Jesus was not sent to the world (of sinners) to judge it, but to save it, and who would be saved? Whoever BELIeVES is not condemned, but whoever does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already. He was sent to the whole world and died for them (sinners) but only those who believe are saved, in John 3 4 and 6 what is the common theme. Believe, ask and it shall be given, eat the bread of life.

it looks like you new here, I would recommend you cut back the attitude, and stop with the silly belittling comments and all, if you want to discuss the word, let’s do it (this is a bible DISCUSSION forum, if you want to shove your belief down everyone’s throat and belittle and attack those who disagree with you, your not in the right place

of course, the final question is have you been here before under another Nick?

 

[Duskey]

My true brothers and sisters in Christ come to the Altar by Grace through Faith in Christ and Him Crucified as a Living Sacrifice, holy acceptable unto God our reasonable service. You along with the 99.9999% come with your works (law) and are rejected. Because you are rejected, you murder us as Cain did Abel. (Type and shadow)

You have proven that all things have not come new to you as a new creation. So, who are you...I know and my brothers and sisters know who you are.

How did you arrive at that number?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

How did you arrive at that number?

Matthew 7:14

 

[Duskey]

Matthew 7:14

Nope, no numbers there. Matthew 22:9-10 however states the wedding hall was FILLED with guests, albeit one was removed.

On another note, you proclaim Jesus has a 99.9999% failure rate. Let that sink in.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hello Rosemaryx,

What a great thing to be pondering indeed. To answer this completely and in a way that honors God, would take up a good part of Holy Scripture. It is also the truth that the world hates the most. Why? Because, to understand it means, that the person is willing to come to grips with the fact that everything God is doing, is for HIS glory and NOT for ours. His people are the partakers of His eternal plan but not the sole focus of His plan. The focus of His plan is His Son. Why? Because He loved His Son above all else. His eternal plan, given in part, in His revealed Word, is the expression of His love for His Son. That plan included giving all things unto Him.

(Rom 11:36) For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen.

Included in this plan, is the redemption of fallen man. For the express purpose of giving Him (Christ), an eternal gift of loving worshipers. The one thing we know, by studying the Scriptures, this was never fully obtained because of the hardness of man's heart. Therefore, the Father Chose some from before the foundation of the world.

(Eph 1:4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

These individuals, who are only known by the Father and the Son, until it becomes manifest by the witness and life of the believer, for others to see. For proof of this choosing out, let's look at the following verses:

(John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

(the better translation here would be, "no man is able to come to me"). Not that a person can't come to Christ but that a man is not able of his own self to come. This harmonizes with Rom. 1:21-23; 3:10-12. The main point to remember is "There is NONE that seeks after God.". Not that man does not seek after a god, but not the God of Scripture, as portrayed in the Scriptures. Just as he often wants to create a savior that is not the Savior as portrayed in Scriptures. Also, in this verse, note where our Lord said, "....the Father who sent me DRAW him..." (In the greek text, the word translated "draw" is "elkusn". This word carries the meaning of: To lay hold of, to pull or drag.) This is where the New Birth comes in. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us into repentance and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

Let's look a little further at God's choosing of some for His Son. Note what our Lord said to the religionist of his day, which still applies today.

(John 6:36,37) But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(John 6:65) And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

Now again, our Lord makes it clear, that He has a particular group in mind, He knows them, they know Him and most importantly, He is dying for them and not for the whole world. This is only one area of Scripture that states this great and hated truth by those of the world that can't hear His voice.

(John 10:26-28) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

Many people want to shove these great truths back into darkness, by saying, well the audience was Jewish and therefore the Sheep were Jewish and this has nothing to do with us gentiles. DON'T be fooled by this. Our Lord said He laid down His life for the Sheep. By their reckoning, putting this all on Jewish ground to be ignored, then non of the Gentiles were included in Christ's death and this would be foolishness.

Now as to the often quoted and abused John 3:16, The use of "world" here is limited in it's scope but I am not going into that now; rather I would like to point out the "whosoevers" of this verse. Based on what I have been writing to you, who do you think the whosoevers are? This verse by the way is not a promise for the future. While it does hold true that those who are believing shall have eternal life. The verb tense, in the greek text, for the word translated "believes" is not in the Future Tense. It is a Present Active Indicative Verb, so our Lord was stating a fact, not a promise. He was saying then, "whoever is believing (right now as he was talking), shall (future), have everlasting life.

So that brings us back to Christ's high priestly prayer of John 17. Jesus did not pray for the "world" because He had nothing to say, to His Father, in regards to the world system or those that were not His own. Plain and simple fact which the world hates. Only the Sheep readily accept this Truth and do not kick against it because we, the sheep, know it is not about us, it is about our Great and Glorious Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord. For we know that God does as he pleases and thank God for that.

Hi...
Thank you for taking time to explain to my question , and I am seeing these things for myself as I study deeper...
The Scripture in John 10:16 says also
I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.

Are these us Gentiles who have and are being called by God ? , I believe so...
...xox...

 

[Duskey]

the final question is have you been here before under another Nick?

He denies being here before however he has shown himself to be a liar and not true to his word buy not following through on the very rules he set up.

He’s definitely been here before, was obviously banned and is now on a mission to proselytize the weak, hence why he will no longer attempt to debate me because he can’t do so successfully.

 

[Chester]

A believer is a believer and an unbeliever is an unbeliever. This is not exactly rocket science.

Nor is it "rocket science" that the believer goes to heaven and the unbeliever goes to hell!

But then if you introduce man-made theology - that is - OSAS - then you have to manipulate Scriptures to fit the theology.

That is this: Scripture says the believer in Christ has eternal life. The unbeliever does not have eternal life. (I think you would agree with this from what you wrote.)

But then if we believe in OSAS, then we must say that eternal life cannot be lost: (and Scripture never says that) and so our theology dictates how we interpret Scripture.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Nope, no numbers there. Matthew 22:9-10 however states the wedding hall was FILLED with guests, albeit one was removed.

On another note, you proclaim Jesus has a 99.9999% failure rate. Let that sink in.

Only one tribe of the twelve tribes of Israel came out from among the Golden Calf worshippers in Exodus 32.

Out of 603,550 men who were readied for war that came out of Egypt under the power of God (Numbers 1:44-46), only two took their inheritance; Joshua (a type of Christ) and Caleb (a type of the body of Christ) (Matthew 7:14). There is only one message that changes the body of Christ into the image of Christ, and that is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.

Many have come in by Way of the Cross, but have gone out through the many other ways offered by Satan, the world and the lust of their flesh (2 Peter 2:21). They have abandoned the Cross for other things. Phil. 3:17-18

The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

 

[Duskey]

The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

Thank God His grace is sufficient.