Women cannot have authority in the congregation.

oldethennew · Aug 10, 2020

=========================================
scribe,
you are 'missing the point' = God Always gets the glory, but uses whom He wills, when He wills...
He has always used the 'good and the evil' for His purposes,
as it is written:
GEN. 50:20.
But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass,
as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

Scribe said:

Paul cast the spirit of divination out of a women that could tell peoples' futures and her owners made money off of her:

Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

God rules from the Heavenly Realm - which is hidden from the Spiritual Realm. All these new agers and spiritualist people operate from the Spiritual Realm but, the Heavenly Realm is higher.

Paul could cast out demons because he operates from the Heavenly Realm according to the Father's Will, even though he was on Earth.

God is in supreme control - no one does anything except God allows it.

Scribe · Aug 10, 2020

oldethennew said:

I am not missing my point. My point was that demons do not see all the future in the spirit realm and therefore are able to tell it to fortune tellers. The scriptures say that is not true. Demons would then be someone else besides God that can declare the future and that is not what the scriptures declare when using that attribute to prove how God is unique in that Attribute.

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

if that is how you see it, despite my lengthy replies, so be it

this thread is not even about your sidetrack anyway

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

Paul cast the spirit of divination out of a women that could tell peoples' futures and her owners made money off of her:

Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

God rules from the Heavenly Realm - which is hidden from the Spiritual Realm. All these new agers and spiritualist people operate from the Spiritual Realm but, the Heavenly Realm is higher.

Paul could cast out demons because he operates from the Heavenly Realm according to the Father's Will, even though he was on Earth.

God is in supreme control - no one does anything except God allows it.

that was covered

what she said about Paul was current knowledge. she did not predict the future. I don't think you understand

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

Scribe said:

Demons do see the future in the Spiritual Realm but, have NO ACCESS to the Heavenly Realm. Demons can tell the future by ONLY what they see in the Spiritual Realm. They cannot see our future that is hidden in the Heavenly Realm until the knowledge is released.

God's Prophets operate from the Heavenly Realm and prophecy by the Holy Spirit from the Heavenly Realm according to what they see and hear by the Holy Spirit.

In Amos, God reveals what He is going to do to His prophets before He does it. These are secrets in the Heavenly Realm - demons cannot know but, once God's Prophet prophesies then it is released.

Amos 3:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

lenna said:

The damsel did predict peoples' futures and was very accurate but, after the spirit left her because Paul cast it out, she could NO LONGER tell the future.

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

yes? please provide the scripture that states what you wrote above

this is what is written and it does not match your rendition

16One day as we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl with a spirit of divination,c who earned a large income for her masters by fortune-telling. 17This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation!”

18She continued this for many days. Eventually Paul grew so aggravated that he turned and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” And the spirit left her at that very moment.

do you know what fortune telling is? that is what this girl was doing. do you know anything about fortune tellers? they don't predict the future. they cannot. divination is not accurately predicting the future by demons in the atmosphere

NOWHERE does it state she was very accurate. that is entirely YOUR embellishment. fortune tellers operate because they tell people what they want to hear. do you know what a cold reading is? many are very good at that

the problem is not that I do not understand what you write. I disagree with your posts regarding teaching and your interpretation

you have not dealt with what I posted because the scripture refutes what you state

how easy to say 'I don't understand what you write' I can assure you I fully understand and have fully understood others in your camp as well

do you deny all the gross error in so many churches today that say they only depend on the Holy Spirit? or are you perhaps persuaded they are right in the path they follow?

I could list them but I think most people here know what I am speaking about

I am not a cessationist, but I do wish most of these hyper spiritual, gravely misled and harboring on demon spirit led, churches would cease

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

lenna said:

Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

You left out verse 19. She had to be very accurate or her owners would NOT have made money off of her.

If she was "faking" the future she would have been able to continue "faking."

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

You left out verse 19. She had to be very accurate or her owners would NOT have made money off of her.

If she was "faking" the future she would have been able to continue "faking."

comprehension problem

you started this little bunny trail

you have put alot of attention on something not related to this thread but you illustrated why we need teachers so thanks for that

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

no I didn't leave it out. I had the notion you would understand about fortune tellers

I was wrong. you don't get it. my bad.

smh

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

lenna said:

I have only replied to posts that have already been posted.

Scribe · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

Did Luke mean to tell us that this woman was indeed telling peoples futures or is it simply a statement of how she was advertised by her owners. I think it was the later.

The reason I would interpret it this way is because we have to reconcile with other scriptures on the same subject. I know that the scriptures use God knowing the future and declaring it as one of the things that proves he is God and not their false idols who claimed to be able to do that but could not. They were fakers. The women was demon possessed and those demons might have given her unusual insight about peoples lives as to their present realities that the woman could not have known otherwise, that surely wowed people and then of course they advertised her as a fortune teller as people still do today but they are all fakers and guessers and tricksters when it comes to actual future prognosis.

There are long sections in the prophets where God challenges them to ask their idols to tell the future like he does, and has and so for that reason I would conclude that they couldn't.

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Teaching is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. “We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift . . . is teaching, then teach” (Romans 12:6–7). In this context, teaching refers to the God-given ability to explain God’s Word; the teacher has the supernatural ability to clearly instruct and communicate knowledge, specifically the doctrines of the faith and truths of the Bible (1 Corinthians 12:27–29).

Teaching is a requirement for pastors: “Now the overseer is to be . . . able to teach” (1 Timothy 3:2; cf. 2 Timothy 2:24). The Bible instructs the pastor to teach sound doctrine based on the written Word of God: “Command and teach these things” (1 Timothy 4:11). Those who are taught by the pastor are then to continue the process of disseminating information: “And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others” (2 Timothy 2:2). Note here that the gospel is “entrusted” to us, and that teachers of the gospel must be “qualified”—part of the qualification is that we be “reliable.”

Teaching, like preaching, was an integral part of the work of an apostle (Matthew 28:19; Ephesians 4:1). Paul knew that he was a teacher of the gospel according to God’s will: “And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher” (2 Timothy 2:11).

Jesus, of course, was the greatest teacher, and He is often referred to as “Rabbi” or “Teacher” (e.g., Luke 13:10; John 1:38; 3:2). In His teaching, our Lord used illustrations (Luke 7:31–32), object lessons (Matthew 6:28), current events (Luke 13:4–5), and many stories (Matthew 13; Mark 4:2). He utilized lecture (Matthew 24), dialogue (John 3), rhetorical questions (Luke 18:8), and proverbs (Luke 7:45). He gave “homework” and followed up on it (Matthew 9:13; 12:7). He used hyperbole (Matthew 5:29), metaphor (John 9:5), and provocative language (Luke 13:32). Always, Jesus the teacher had the best interests of His students at heart; always, the subject of His teaching was the absolute and unchanging truth of God.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT TEACHING

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

nope.

Lafftur · Aug 10, 2020

lenna said:

Oh lenna, no worries. All these discussions are good and I've enjoyed chatting with you. It's okay if we don't agree. God still loves us both and is pleased that we searched for Truth together!

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

I understand you wish to disengage and not deal with the biblical concept of the necessity for teachers and Holy Spirit led teachers

God does not like to be misrepresented and have all the warnings about deception be ignored

it is a great disservice to the body of Christ to do so

let's recap, shall we?

you come charging in like gang busters telling us all that you only have the Holy Spirit for your teacher and anyone who does otherwise is full of themself and worldly wisdom

sound familiar?

you basically blasted us with your opinions and gave us what for

right. you go ahead and check out though but I pray people pay attention and understand that everyone agreed we should pray and ask God to help us with His Spirit, we also acknowledge what scripture states about teachers and the need for them

Scribe · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

This is God speaking through the Prophet. Isaiah 41

21“Present your case,” says the Lord.

“Set forth your arguments,” says Jacob’s King.

22“Tell us, you idols,

what is going to happen.

Tell us what the former things were,

so that we may consider them

and know their final outcome.

Or declare to us the things to come,

23tell us what the future holds,

so we may know that you are gods.

Do something, whether good or bad,

so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.

24But you are less than nothing

and your works are utterly worthless;

whoever chooses you is detestable.

Now we know that the scriptures cannot contradict. If God is saying here that the fact that the false demonic idols were not able to tell the future and that only God can do that then all future tellers are just pretenders. And that is why we know that Luke saying that she made her owners money with fortune telling simply means people paid her money to tell their fortunes and she did what they did in the days of Isaiah pretended to have that power but really did not since only God has that divine attribute and all fortune tellers are liars.

lenna · Aug 10, 2020

"Lafftur, post: 4341575, member: 254930"]@Scribe @lenna @SoulWeaver @Angela53510

God has promised, when a person seeks Him with all their heart they will find Him.

So, if you want to use hermeneutics to seek God with all your heart, go ahead.

God is free, willing and able to use any study tool to teach us - sometimes parables, life experience, object lesson, His Word, etc but, ALL UNDERSTANDING of Truth comes from the Holy Spirit to us - without the Holy Spirit we know NOTHING, even if we think we do.

Our understanding has to be made OPEN by the Holy Spirit.

I find the simplicity of just sitting with God's Word the Bible and reading it and asking God questions and having conversation with Him - God has given us His Holy Spirit to teach, guide, counsel, comfort, and empower us as witnesses of Jesus Christ. He is the Author - He knows what His Word means and can easily give a seeking heart understanding.

Deception is too easy in the physical realm. We need the Holy Spirit to understand and discern correctly.

Hermeneutics originated from Greek Mythology - a Greek god named Hermes that was suppose to interpret and give knowledge to mortals.....

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/hermeneutic
First used in the 1670s, the adjective hermeneutic has origins in the Greek word hermeneuein, meaning "to interpret," which is thought to have derived from the Greek god Hermes, who served as a messenger interpreting between the gods and mortals. Like Hermes, something hermeneutic involves interpretation.

......it appears to me hermeneutics is just another attempt of philosophical human reasoning but, all of you go ahead and enjoy your hermeneutics.......I'm staying with the Holy Spirit.

gee thanks for telling us that only you have the Holy Spirit and that hermeneutics is demonic.
smh

you can't make up this kind of nonsense

tourist · Aug 10, 2020

Lafftur said:

You are very gracious that's for sure. You're forum decorum is worth emulating. It does say in the first chapter of Isaiah " Come now, and let us reason together...". That is what is happening in the current flow of conversation.

Women cannot have authority in the congregation.

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