Eternal Security - Most dangerous words ever preached: Once saved, always saved.

[Micaiah-imla]

How did you miss 'until the day of redemption ( glorification) ?

I pray this doesn’t lead you to temp God when committing a sin in willful disobedience thinking God is cornered with his hands tied by the “sealed unto the day of redemption” verse.

Is that the only verse you meditate on?

 

[posthuman]

@Micaiah-imla

i take your disagreement with the ultimate question to mean that you do not believe Christ ?




this is perfectly understandable given your denial of His divinity.

i appreciate the admission.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

That is plainly speaking about FALSE TEACHERS.

Anybody who believes in OSAS has been deceived by a false teacher.

Wake up!

 

[throughfaith]

This is clear as day too:

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So don’t sin willfully so that your seal isn’t broken.

Unclear to clear. thats what your doing. There must be about 15 different interpretations

Romans 7v13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Here Paul correctly identifies SIN as the culprit and not the Law.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Here Paul correctly identifies that mankind was sold under the power of sin.

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.

Paul cannot, despite his best intentions, do what is good to do, or stop doing what he needs to stop doing (remember the context – pre Damascus – in his zeal as a Pharisee)

16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Never lose sight of the fact that Paul keeps a repentant mindset through this. It is NOT describing a willful sinner who is purposely pursuing evil. He is rather indicating that there is a power over him that he cannot ultimately win (remember the context – pre Damascus – in his zeal as a Pharisee)

17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Here the clear distinction between a mind that is repentant, but a THING within him that has dominion over his mind and is domineering over his mind.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

See this evidence again. He with his mind is repentant, but his flesh is DOMINANT. He knows the enemy lurks within the flesh.

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

As above.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This is an introduction to the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. It is a very real law. Just as the law of gravity exists, and exists everywhere – so too does the law of sin and death exist for every human being in their flesh. It is vicious – and continually attacks the mind. For where the mind goes the man follows. Ultimately, it seems a lost cause, because the Law of Sin and Death brings the mind into captivity.

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

• FINALLY we get to this. An exasperated Paul. Having reached the end of himself. The impossibility of his strivings. The sheer wretch of a man he is because he sees himself through God’s eyes. A wretch. And he comes to the right question: WHO will deliver me from this body of death? And the solution: JESUS CHRIST. Do you see this yet? The verses above “what I want to do I can’t etc etc” has a SOLUTION.

Now let’s look at what this SOLUTION entails:

Romans 8v1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

-See the walking come up again. Those who do not WALK according to the flesh but rather WALK according to the Spirit are under NO condemnation.



2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

-See that? Look again carefully. The Law of Sin and Death has been overruled by the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. It’s like the King in the book of Esther. He could not withdraw the previous decree, but instead gave a new decree which allowed the children of Israel to defend themselves. We see here too the new law come into effect which frees us from the old law. It applies to those who walk according to the Spirit.



3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

See the conditionality again? Jesus dealt with the flesh in the flesh, so that we can have victory over the flesh by living in the Spirit.

When we live by the Spirit, God considers the law being fulfilled in us.

….when we walk in the Spirit and not according to the flesh (important).

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We are still faced with daily choices. Live according to the flesh or according to the Spirit. The born again child of God will want to walk according to the Spirit. These choices still need to be made. Look at this verse: Romans 5v24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.



9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

This is the true gospel. Christ in us, the hope of glory (Colossians 1v27)

See Romans 6v5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

And here is the warning to the Christian, to which we must give heed and cannot ignore.

God leads. We follow. If we keep that attitude we have no cause for concern or failure. God will fulfil all that He has promised. But we MUST walk with Him.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I AM carnal, sold under sin.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Can one be saved without faith?

Most of the OSAS will say to you, "God knows my heart."

 

[Chris1975]

Unclear to clear. thats what your doing. There must be about 15 different interpretations

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I AM carnal, sold under sin.

Talking about the inherited nature of Adam. Before the solution is provided in v24.

 

[throughfaith]

I pray this doesn’t lead you to temp God when committing a sin in willful disobedience thinking God is cornered with his hands tied by the “sealed unto the day of redemption” verse.

Is that the only verse you meditate on?

God chastises those whom he loves .

 

[throughfaith]

Talking about the inherited nature of Adam. Before the solution is provided in v24.

No Paul is saying literally as it reads .
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[Chris1975]

God chastises those whom he loves .

Chastiement has levels. Understand Leviticus 26 to see how these levels of chastisement progress.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 7v9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. (His pre age of accountability)

And the question to the issue of struggling with sin: Romans 7v24b Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Thats the solution to the Romans 7 dilemma.

You cannot decide to continue living in the Romans 7 dilemma when the solution has been provided in Christ.

there is no "dilemma"

in present tense, the desires of the flesh war against the Spirit, but the body is dead because of sin and the Spirit alive to God for righteousness.
because we have already died with Christ we are free, and there is no more condemnation: we live by the Spirit, not by the flesh. if the question of our eternal life were settled by works done in our bodies, there would be condemnation. that *would* be a dilemma -- which is why the question is asked 'who will deliver me??' -- but as it is, there is no dilemma: with Him we have died already and our life is hid in Him who keeps us by the power of God: His own power, His own work. Christ will deliver me, and you, if you will believe Him. you do not deliver yourself.

 

[Chris1975]

No Paul is saying literally as it reads .
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

No, it is exactly as I have explained it.

 

[Chris1975]

there is no "dilemma"

in present tense, the desires of the flesh war against the Spirit, but the body is dead because of sin and the Spirit alive to God for righteousness.
because we have already died with Christ we are free, and there is no more condemnation: we live by the Spirit, not by the flesh. if the question of our eternal life were settled by works done in our bodies, there would be condemnation. that *would* be a dilemma -- which is why the question is asked 'who will deliver me??' -- but as it is, there is no dilemma: with Him we have died already and our life is hid in Him who keeps us by the power of God: His own power, His own work. Christ will deliver me, and you, if you will believe Him. you do not deliver yourself.

There is no condemnation to those who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Roman 8v1.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 8v1-4 is the Solution.

Romans 8:1-4 is a conclusion. it begins with "therefore"

the solution is the subject of Romans 6. it is summarized in Romans 7: we have died in order to belong to another.

 

[Chris1975]

Romans 8:1-4 is a conclusion. it begins with "therefore"

the solution is the subject of Romans 6. it is summarized in Romans 7: we have died in order to belong to another.

You wont be able to get past Romans 6v1-2. That testifies against you.

Unless you have a Gnostic view on things. Well then your problem is even greater.

 

[posthuman]

There is no condemnation to those who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Roman 8v1.

then your flesh does not condemn you, but the Spirit gives life. this is why, the cross.
if it were by works, there is no need for Him to be crucified -- if it were by works, His sacrifice is void.
"with my mind i serve God" - Romans 7.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

There must be about 15 different interpretations

Perhaps only in your carnal mind.

 

[posthuman]

You wont be able to get past Romans 6v1-2. That testifies against you.

Unless you have a Gnostic view on things. Well then your problem is even greater.

you got a clue why a Christian might have a skeleton for an avatar, dude?
because Romans 6.

'won't get past it' LOL

 

[Chris1975]

then your flesh does not condemn you, but the Spirit gives life. this is why, the cross.
if it were by works, there is no need for Him to be crucified -- if it were by works, His sacrifice is void.
"with my mind i serve God" - Romans 7.

If you by the Spirit PUT TO DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

 

[posthuman]

If you by the Spirit PUT TO DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 6.

He is not crucified a second time, m8.

 

[Chris1975]

Lets continue in Romans 6:

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were [e]delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


It always amazes me how people cannot see or understand what is plainly written. They take a Gnostic view of things.