Yes and the consequences are the same . Both have to look to their works. Which no growth can come out of this .
The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes... again many of their famed teachers will openly teach one has to look at one's works to know it they are saved.
It has the exact opposite affect, agree, those that escape Lordship salvation teachings will often testify to this.
I completely agree with you . That is what I mean . The calvinist believes Ephesians 1 is saying that they were Chosen to be saved ( which I disagree ) . He reads that Eternal life is erm ...eternal ( I agree , I believe in Eternal security but because we are sealed until the day of redemption and not on ' election ' ). The Arminain version of of " endure to the end ' is that they can fail to 'run the race ' . The Calvinist still holds to the same understanding of the verse . They have to endure to the end otherwise they will not be one of the elect . In practice its the same 'Lordship salvation '
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EleventhHour
Guest
The apostles, addressing the people all those churches by the "elect" and other blessed names even when they walked in error, must have been making just a wild, uneducated guess. (Since not all would persevere...)
But I think the apostles made it a point to believe and hope all things...
My point being that we must have a little faith in God in this matter.
I don't know if I am elect with human knowledge, but I know it with faith knowledge, because I believe God.
Sad thing that faith knowledge isn't enough assurance for many people and they live all their lives in terror (where's the joy of Christ gone?).
That's what happens when men start building their own belief systems, to take control of spiritual things. It backfires. We must surrender to God, it's the only way.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I have yet to hear any calvinist make this claim, About enduring to make sure they are elect.
can you quote some?
I guess I am not following. Why do those who look to God for their salvation and keeping (instead of self)...look to their works?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
our assurance comes:from our hope. From which our faith is based on.
a calvinist assurance comes from the fact they were chosen it is all of god, hence they will never fail
a calvinist assurance comes from the fact they were chosen it is all of god, hence they will never fail
Not to mention that the verse is actually only for those during the Tribulation.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
We agree it is only for tribulation, which they deny, but they also deny it is required to maintain salvation
is the video from a calvinist saying what you claim?
Do you really not know the answer to your question or are you just joking? I can't tell.
Wow! I sense a lot of anger and disdain in this thread. It's like you hate Arminians and Calvinists (and Catholics too). Anger is a sin you know!?! It comes from Satan. Avoid it! They're all our brothers and sisters in Christ. Pray for them instead. Godspeed.
The video is a sermon by spurge on Perseverance. Of course he holds to the view that mathew 24.13 is for believer's during the church age . A Calvinist holds to the idea they ' will ' endure to the end ...to be saved ' not because of their own works but because an elect person has to have works. Its Faith alone BUT that faith is never alone . subtle, Works salvation trap of Lordship salvation which hamstrings every poor believer that gets sucked into it .
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not calvinist, and I belief faith is never alone, Nor is salvation by works
so am I a lordship salvation person?
an arminian believes salvation can be lost how is that in anyway close to the endure to the end that any believer in eternal security believes?
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EleventhHour
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
From this post I can see you have not read much in this post
if you are offended this easy maybe you should find another thread
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EleventhHour
Guest
You have done homework or been through it
.... there have been a few on this site over the years that have understood the implications of Lordship Salvation, a tentacle of Calvinism that has infiltrated the churches... however most are have already been indoctrinated they cannot see it.
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