The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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throughfaith

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#61
Aug 4, 2020
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#61
crossnote said:
This goes to my OP, where Calvinists lay stress on 'God keeps' whereas Arminians emphasis is on us to keep faith.
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Yes and the consequences are the same . Both have to look to their works. Which no growth can come out of this .
 
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EleventhHour

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#62
#62
throughfaith said:
Yes and the consequences are the same . Both have to look to their works. Which no growth can come out of this .
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Yes... again many of their famed teachers will openly teach one has to look at one's works to know it they are saved.
It has the exact opposite affect, agree, those that escape Lordship salvation teachings will often testify to this.
 
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throughfaith

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#63
Aug 4, 2020
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#63
eternally-gratefull said:
This makes no sense

a calvinist thinks any chosen person will persevere, he believes eternal life is eternal not conditional

Endure to the end is a legalistic use, it means salvation can be lost. no Calvinist thinks salvation can be lost
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I completely agree with you . That is what I mean . The calvinist believes Ephesians 1 is saying that they were Chosen to be saved ( which I disagree ) . He reads that Eternal life is erm ...eternal ( I agree , I believe in Eternal security but because we are sealed until the day of redemption and not on ' election ' ). The Arminain version of of " endure to the end ' is that they can fail to 'run the race ' . The Calvinist still holds to the same understanding of the verse . They have to endure to the end otherwise they will not be one of the elect . In practice its the same 'Lordship salvation '
 
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throughfaith

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#64
Aug 4, 2020
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#64
EleventhHour said:
Yes... again many of their famed teachers will openly teach one has to look at one's works to know it they are saved.
It has the exact opposite affect, agree, those that escape Lordship salvation teachings will often testify to this.
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John Piper most notably.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#66
Oct 25, 2014
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#66
throughfaith said:
Every good Calvinist believes that you have to endure to the end to be saved ( hence the P in TULIP) of course due to the U , every Calvinist will endure to the end because he is ' elect ' . The problem is he can never know he really is one of the elect unless he perseveres in good works . Now your caught in a works trip . Thats my point .
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The apostles, addressing the people all those churches by the "elect" and other blessed names even when they walked in error, must have been making just a wild, uneducated guess. (Since not all would persevere...)
But I think the apostles made it a point to believe and hope all things...
My point being that we must have a little faith in God in this matter.
I don't know if I am elect with human knowledge, but I know it with faith knowledge, because I believe God.
Sad thing that faith knowledge isn't enough assurance for many people and they live all their lives in terror (where's the joy of Christ gone?).
That's what happens when men start building their own belief systems, to take control of spiritual things. It backfires. We must surrender to God, it's the only way.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#67
#67
throughfaith said:
I completely agree with you . That is what I mean . The calvinist believes Ephesians 1 is saying that they were Chosen to be saved ( which I disagree ) . He reads that Eternal life is erm ...eternal ( I agree , I believe in Eternal security but because we are sealed until the day of redemption and not on ' election ' ). The Arminain version of of " endure to the end ' is that they can fail to 'run the race ' . The Calvinist still holds to the same understanding of the verse . They have to endure to the end otherwise they will not be one of the elect . In practice its the same 'Lordship salvation '
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I have yet to hear any calvinist make this claim, About enduring to make sure they are elect.
can you quote some?
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#68
Nov 24, 2012
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#68
throughfaith said:
Yes and the consequences are the same . Both have to look to their works. Which no growth can come out of this .
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I guess I am not following. Why do those who look to God for their salvation and keeping (instead of self)...look to their works?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#69
#69
our assurance comes:from our hope. From which our faith is based on.
a calvinist assurance comes from the fact they were chosen it is all of god, hence they will never fail
 
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throughfaith

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#70
Aug 4, 2020
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#70
eternally-gratefull said:
I have yet to hear any calvinist make this claim, About enduring to make sure they are elect.
can you quote some?
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its more subtle than that . its ' they will endure because they are 'elect '
Not to mention that the verse is actually only for those during the Tribulation.
 
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throughfaith

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#71
Aug 4, 2020
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#71
crossnote said:
I guess I am not following. Why do those who look to God for their salvation and keeping (instead of self)...look to their works?
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What do you mean by 'look to God ' for their salvation and keeping ' ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
#72
throughfaith said:
its more subtle than that . its ' they will endure because they are 'elect '
Not to mention that the verse is actually only for those during the Tribulation.
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We agree it is only for tribulation, which they deny, but they also deny it is required to maintain salvation

is the video from a calvinist saying what you claim?
 
AndyMaleh

AndyMaleh

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#74
Jun 26, 2020
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#74
Wow! I sense a lot of anger and disdain in this thread. It's like you hate Arminians and Calvinists (and Catholics too). Anger is a sin you know!?! It comes from Satan. Avoid it! They're all our brothers and sisters in Christ. Pray for them instead. Godspeed.
 
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throughfaith

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#75
Aug 4, 2020
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#75
eternally-gratefull said:
We agree it is only for tribulation, which they deny, but they also deny it is required to maintain salvation

is the video from a calvinist saying what you claim?
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The video is a sermon by spurge on Perseverance. Of course he holds to the view that mathew 24.13 is for believer's during the church age . A Calvinist holds to the idea they ' will ' endure to the end ...to be saved ' not because of their own works but because an elect person has to have works. Its Faith alone BUT that faith is never alone . subtle, Works salvation trap of Lordship salvation which hamstrings every poor believer that gets sucked into it .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
#76
throughfaith said:
The video is a sermon by spurge on Perseverance. Of course he holds to the view that mathew 24.13 is for believer's during the church age . A Calvinist holds to the idea they ' will ' endure to the end ...to be saved ' not because of their own works but because an elect person has to have works. Its Faith alone BUT that faith is never alone . subtle, Works salvation trap of Lordship salvation which hamstrings every poor believer that gets sucked into it .
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I am not calvinist, and I belief faith is never alone, Nor is salvation by works

so am I a lordship salvation person?

an arminian believes salvation can be lost how is that in anyway close to the endure to the end that any believer in eternal security believes?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#77
#77
throughfaith said:
The video is a sermon by spurge on Perseverance. Of course he holds to the view that mathew 24.13 is for believer's during the church age . A Calvinist holds to the idea they ' will ' endure to the end ...to be saved ' not because of their own works but because an elect person has to have works. Its Faith alone BUT that faith is never alone . subtle, Works salvation trap of Lordship salvation which hamstrings every poor believer that gets sucked into it .
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Agree 100%
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
#78
AndyMaleh said:
Wow! I sense a lot of anger and disdain in this thread. It's like you hate Arminians and Calvinists (and Catholics too). Anger is a sin you know!?! It comes from Satan. Avoid it! They're all our brothers and sisters in Christ. Pray for them instead. Godspeed.
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From this post I can see you have not read much in this post

if you are offended this easy maybe you should find another thread
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#79
#79
throughfaith said:
The video is a sermon by spurge on Perseverance. Of course he holds to the view that mathew 24.13 is for believer's during the church age . A Calvinist holds to the idea they ' will ' endure to the end ...to be saved ' not because of their own works but because an elect person has to have works. Its Faith alone BUT that faith is never alone . subtle, Works salvation trap of Lordship salvation which hamstrings every poor believer that gets sucked into it .
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You have done homework or been through it

.... there have been a few on this site over the years that have understood the implications of Lordship Salvation, a tentacle of Calvinism that has infiltrated the churches... however most are have already been indoctrinated they cannot see it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
#80
Lordship salvation is bad, but it is not endure to,the end
 
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