Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[oldethennew]

WOW, only 'two years', you were very blessed...

 

[Just_Jo]

Praise God!
Yes I have been very blessed but I have also suffered much in my time with the Lord and I praise Him for His magnificent love that carries me through!

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 9:18 does not fit your dogma of election

Are you trying to use the force??

These droids aren't the ones your looking for...

 

[Grandpa]

Response:

32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all.

Romans 11:32

So tell me are you being deceptive with scripture always using Romans 9:22 and avoiding Romans 11:32 or do you not know the scripture?

Someone is being deceptive here. Let's see who it really is.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Them is different than everyone, isn't it? Who's the them that Romans 11 is talking about?


It is funny how 9/10 when someone accuses you of something it is usually themselves that is doing what they accuse.

 

[Magenta]

Umm..... sorry but this is also contradictory, Calvin is dead he does not teach you how to be a Christian and yet you found Calvinism to

resonate with scripture?

Calvin being dead should have no bearing given that Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all also dead...

 

[Magenta]

Its not like Calvin is teaching me how to be a Christian. He's been dead for awhile.

I became a Christian and then studied theology. I found Calvinism to resonate with scripture and with my experience with God.


If you take all your pride and all your emotionalism out of the equation and just study scripture you will find perfect harmony in what Calvinism teaches. Generally.

Umm..... sorry but this is also contradictory, Calvin is dead he does not teach you how to be a Christian and yet you found Calvinism to

resonate with scripture?

Calvin being dead should have no bearing given that Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all also dead...

 

[Grandpa]

The Scriptures you shared are ambiguous at best. Romans 9:22 states “What if”. It’s a hypothetical.

On another note, and not that you care, but I respect you for having the dignity to attempt to answer questions unlike preacher4heresy who hides from the light then bloviates to his comrades about his moral compass and intellectual superiority.

I don't have all the answers. But what I do know comes from scripture.

And some of your questions will just end in an obvious declaration of opinion, which really won't get anyone anywhere.

We already know what our opinions are. Right?

 

[Grandpa]

Here, perhaps is the fallacy, thinking regeneration is a blessing and not a gift. When it is a blessing therefore you had some part of it, remember, in the O.T. of the blessing and the cursing depends on obedience or disobedience. However, a gift is a gift (salvation)given to you, either you accept it or reject it.

All the gifts of God are a blessing.

Being blessed by God doesn't necessarily imply you worked for it.

 

[Magenta]

I forgot to mention James and Jude Have I neglected any others? (NT only )

 

[Grandpa]

Listen pal....I do study and Calvinism is a cult from the pits of hell....it is not even close to being biblical and all that peddle it's drivel are as false as they come and will pay the price when they stand before God as a false teacher!

Calvinism just disagrees with your pride and arrogance.

It doesn't mean that its incorrect. It just means that you don't like it.

You tell my which doctrines of Calvinism you don't like and I will show you the scripture its based upon.

 

[Grandpa]

Calvin being dead should have no bearing given that Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all also dead...

Good point.

 

[preacher4truth]

Listen pal....I do study and Calvinism is a cult from the pits of hell....it is not even close to being biblical and all that peddle it's drivel are as false as they come and will pay the price when they stand before God as a false teacher!

Calvinism is biblically sound, that's why you loathe it.

It is noted you don't bring any substance, just lip, false accusations, noise, blather. You wouldn't last long in a Biblical debate and would have to resort to the above baseless and childish ad hominem. It is the sign of losing the battle. You bring no game because you have no game.

Every single day you come with the same old baseless unsubstantiated drivel.

Can we expect you to do the same again tomorrow?

 

[Bbrdrd]

Calvinism just disagrees with your pride and arrogance.

It doesn't mean that its incorrect. It just means that you don't like it.

You tell my which doctrines of Calvinism you don't like and I will show you the scripture its based upon.

A lot of the trouble with Calvinism is the passages presented as proof texts are read in a very modern manner. Ideas that became entrenched with the church by Augustine and later Latin fathers are taken as authoritative and then the modern applications are read into the ancient text.

Looking prior to Augustine there is almost unanimous consent among those who wrote on predestination/freewill that Scripturally men have free will. From the apostolic fathers, to the apologists, to the pre-latin fathers such as Jerome.

It is only when the Bible is read with Augustine's manichean philosophies superimposed over it that Calvinism becomes tenable, and then only if verses are taken in isolation as proof of doctrine.

 

[Grandpa]

A lot of the trouble with Calvinism is the passages presented as proof texts are read in a very modern manner. Ideas that became entrenched with the church by Augustine and later Latin fathers are taken as authoritative and then the modern applications are read into the ancient text.

Looking prior to Augustine there is almost unanimous consent among those who wrote on predestination/freewill that Scripturally men have free will. From the apostolic fathers, to the apologists, to the pre-latin fathers such as Jerome.

It is only when the Bible is read with Augustine's manichean philosophies superimposed over it that Calvinism becomes tenable, and then only if verses are taken in isolation as proof of doctrine.

I completely disagree with this approach and the ad hominem people try with Augustine.

Have you read any of Augustines stuff? He is OBVIOUSLY saved.

Once a person is saved that knowledge supercedes all other "philosophies".


Calvin doesn't reference any "manichean" philosophies in his Institutes. He references scripture.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I completely disagree with this approach and the ad hominem people try with Augustine.

Have you read any of Augustines stuff? He is OBVIOUSLY saved.

Once a person is saved that knowledge supercedes all other "philosophies".


Calvin doesn't reference any "manichean" philosophies in his Institutes. He references scripture.

I never implied Augustine wasn't saved, merely that he took his manichean learnings and brought them with him and created an unBiblical picture of original sin and flesh.

Augustine introduced an innovation into the church with his take on those two topics that is distinct from all those who came before and those who continued to primarily write in Greek. Augustine contributed greatly to the annals of theology but he holds undue weight in the post-Latin church.

Are you implying that salvation brings with it infallible knowledge? The issue with Luther and Calvin is they took things introduced to the church by Augustine and argued them to razor sharp precision.

But those things that were introduced are the result of stepping away from the cultures that the Bible was based on and overlaying a 5th century judicial model on the entire thing.

 

[Grandpa]

I never implied Augustine wasn't saved, merely that he took his manichean learnings and brought them with him and created an unBiblical picture of original sin and flesh.

Augustine introduced an innovation into the church with his take on those two topics that is distinct from all those who came before and those who continued to primarily write in Greek. Augustine contributed greatly to the annals of theology but he holds undue weight in the post-Latin church.

Are you implying that salvation brings with it infallible knowledge? The issue with Luther and Calvin is they took things introduced to the church by Augustine and argued them to razor sharp precision.

But those things that were introduced are the result of stepping away from the cultures that the Bible was based on and overlaying a 5th century judicial model on the entire thing.

I'm not an expert on Augustine. I read his Confessions and I could absolutely tell from those that he was saved.

The ideas he conveyed there didn't seem foreign or "manichean". They seemed like the logical ideas that are born of questioning what is happening during salvation.

And yes, salvation does bring with it some knowledge that only Christ can give. Is this knowledge infallible? Yes. But trying to extrapolate from that can bring fallible things.

 

[EleventhHour]

Someone is being deceptive here. Let's see who it really is.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Them is different than everyone, isn't it? Who's the them that Romans 11 is talking about?


It is funny how 9/10 when someone accuses you of something it is usually themselves that is doing what they accuse.

Romans 3:23 it is easily understood to mean every individual person,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

just as Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So yes God does mercy upon all >>>> whosoever!!

He is not selecting a few according to His limited mercy.>>>>>>> the invitation is open to all.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 3:23 it is easily understood to mean every individual person,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

just as Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So yes God does mercy upon all >>>> whosoever!!

He is not selecting a few according to His limited mercy.>>>>>>> the invitation is open to all.

According to your opinion.

Romans 11:32 is NOT referencing everyone like you originally tried to make it seem. What was the phrase you used?

Oh yeah, deceptive use of scripture.

 

[NOV25]

I see not much has changed in here over the past week or so.

 

[EleventhHour]

I completely disagree with this approach and the ad hominem people try with Augustine.

Have you read any of Augustines stuff? He is OBVIOUSLY saved.

Once a person is saved that knowledge supercedes all other "philosophies".


Calvin doesn't reference any "manichean" philosophies in his Institutes. He references scripture.

We do not have knowledge whether he was saved or not.... and secondly no one escapes their prior influences, beliefs, biases perfectly even after salvation.