How does Jesus' suffering on the cross compare to an eternity in Hell?

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

What were the charges, how were they proven to be true, who were the witnesses, by what legal code was the standard of judgment, and what were their statements, and who actually condemned him as a criminal?

"was in all points tempted like as [we are yet] without sin" [Hebrews 4:15],

and in His death it is written, "...my flesh shall rest in hope..." [Acts 2:26], and

"...his soul [being/person] was not left in the grave, neither his flesh did see corruption..." [Acts 2:31] because He was/is...

"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]

that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]

and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]

born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],

where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:

"...lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]

"… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]

"...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]

"...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]

"… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]

"… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]

"… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]

"The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]

"… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]

"… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]

"...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]

"...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]

"… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]

"...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]

"...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]

"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]

"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]

"...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]

"...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

"...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]

"...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]

"...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]

BuffyLou · Jul 31, 2020

WithinReason said:

Yes. And I will commit my life to Him. Amen.

BuffyLou · Jul 31, 2020

Magenta said:

I never said he was not. I said he was a criminal. It's a historical fact.

Magenta · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

It is not a historical fact. Check your irrational and illogical reasoning. You are insisting that nobody was/is ever wrongfully tried and convicted. The fact of the matter is that Jesus' "trial" was illegal. LOL. Also, Pilate found Him innocent

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

Magenta said:

They accept part of the written record that Jesus was arrested, using the very scriptures, they deny in the parts wherein it says that Jesus was sinless. It is willfull, and intentful.

BuffyLou · Jul 31, 2020

WithinReason said:

Who is denying Jesus was sinless?

Magenta · Jul 31, 2020

WithinReason said:

Yes, it is plain as day that Buffy is arguing from willful ignorance

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

So far, you are committed to 'you'.

Journeyman · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

Accusing Jesus of sedition is bearing false witness, which is sinful, but do as you please.

For those who wish to know the truth, Jesus didn't lead or teach rebellion against government. Jesus willingly submitted to his own sentence of death.

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

Magenta said:

The mindset of this person is rather atheistic/islamic.

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

What Law, and where may it be found to be written so that we may compare the actions of Jesus to that Law? I am rather 'surprised' at your audacity to state such a thing about Jesus, in spite of the scriptures stating otherwise.

BuffyLou · Jul 31, 2020

Magenta said:

The trial was illegal?

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

By the Sanhedrin? Yes. It was at night. It was not before all the Council, as it was missing several persons. Jesus was condemned on His own testimony (that He indeed was the Son of the Blessed (God the Father)), rather than by two or three true witnesses, etc.

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

By Pilate? Yes. He accepted Jesus into his custody, on the hearsay of the partial Sanhedrin, and yet found no guilt in Jesus by questioning, and yet still scourged him (twice), and did not release Him (Jesus) as he ought to have done, but then handed him over to his false-accusers, for Pilate "knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]. All of which is illegal by Roman Law.

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

By the High priest? Yes. Even the High priest broke Law, by tearing his Priestly Garments, which was illegal to do according to the Law of Moses:

Mat_26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Mar 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

Lev 21:10 And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

WithinReason · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

In order to be a "criminal", said person has to have committed a "crime". What was the "crime" of Jesus. Provide evidence, documented "historical fact(s)", please.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/crime

https://thelawdictionary.org/

Feel free to also use Black's Law book, beyond the scripture if you desire for legal definition of "crime" or "criminal".

Deuteronomy · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

Hello again BuffyLou, where did you get your information

I've never read or heard anything like this before (and what proof is there that what you've been told is true?).

Quite frankly, if λῃστής [transliterated as lestes] was used as a generic term for "insurrectionist", it would show up as such in my lexicons, but it does not.

On the other hand, στασιαστής [transliterated as sustasiastes] means exactly that, the author of, or a participant in, an insurrection.

I believe that the Bible can be helpful here as it tells us plainly,

Mark 15

7 The man named Barabbas had been imprisoned with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the insurrection.

Barabbas (the criminal who the Jews persuaded Pilate to release instead of Jesus) and his fellow inmates were the murderers and insurrectionists of which you speak, not the innocent Lord Jesus Christ (nor were the two men who were hung on crosses to His right and to His left. They were both guilty of stealing, not insurrection).

Again, where did your information come from

Thank you!

~Deut

Deuteronomy · Jul 31, 2020

Whoops, I suppose I could have made that a bit clearer. Hopefully this will:

Mark 15
7 The man named Barabbas had been imprisoned with the στασιαστής (insurrectionists) who had committed murder in the στάσις (insurrection).

The word translated thief, robber or brigand, and the word translated insurrectionist, rebel, or rioter, are two different Greek words.

~Deut

oldethennew · Jul 31, 2020

BuffyLou said:

=============================================================
you are a very evil person, without a mind that can conceive Godly Holiness...
you should be 'banned'...

BuffyLou · Jul 31, 2020

oldethennew said:

That was harsh

How does Jesus' suffering on the cross compare to an eternity in Hell?

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