Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

[Wansvic]

Here is a better summation of my point by a Mr. Tozer. What I was trying to convey is that if ones point or assertion does not end up at the feet of Jesus, then ones reasoning is faulty.

The Christian is concerned primarily with truth, and especially with Him who is Truth incarnated. Facts are not to be despised. They are to be sought for their practical value and used in the service of truth, but they are never to be allowed to substitute for those "treasures of wisdom and knowledge" which are hidden in Christ.
In this day of moral confusion, truth is not always understood to be a master to which we must render obedience; it is rather conceived to be a servant which we may use to further ends that lie outside of truth. Private ends are often sought by the aid of truth, ends that stand outside of and bear no relation whatever to truth itself.

If we were to observe strict accuracy, we should always capitalize the word Truth, for when we have pushed it back as far as we can, we will come to God Himself. For this reason, truth will always be the master, never the servant. And truth can never be understood apart from its moral and spiritual implications.
A. W. Tozer Sermon: Finding Truth In Christ

Jesus said "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17

The biblical record specifies what is expected of all. Peter's instructions state that ALL must repent, and be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) This promise was for all individuals whom the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39) Notice Peter's words; this promise is to you, (an individual) your children (individuals) and as many (individuals) the Lord thy God shall call. Compliance to these instructions were then witnessed in accounts of individual Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48) and Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-17) He did not say do these things since you have received the Holy Ghost upon believing Jesus' sacrifice. No. He said do these things since you believe and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, the record specifies that they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine/teaching. (Acts 2:42)

Jesus stated that everyone will be judged by the word itself. (John 12:48) So it is necessary to actually do what the word says for one to expect to receive the Holy Ghost. Jesus said straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that will find it. (Matt 7:13-14)

 

[Sipsey]

Jesus said "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17

The biblical record specifies what is expected of all. Peter's instructions state that ALL must repent, and be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) This promise was for all individuals whom the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39) Notice Peter's words; this promise is to you, (an individual) your children (individuals) and as many (individuals) the Lord thy God shall call. Compliance to these instructions were then witnessed in accounts of individual Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48) and Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-17) He did not say do these things since you have received the Holy Ghost upon believing Jesus' sacrifice. No. He said do these things since you believe and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, the record specifies that they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine/teaching. (Acts 2:42)

Jesus stated that everyone will be judged by the word itself. (John 12:48) So it is necessary to actually do what the word says for one to expect to receive the Holy Ghost. Jesus said straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that will find it. (Matt 7:13-14)

I’m afraid you missed the point of my comment.

 

[garee]

Jesus said "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:17

The biblical record specifies what is expected of all. Peter's instructions state that ALL must repent, and be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) This promise was for all individuals whom the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39) Notice Peter's words; this promise is to you, (an individual) your children (individuals) and as many (individuals) the Lord thy God shall call. Compliance to these instructions were then witnessed in accounts of individual Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48) and Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-17) He did not say do these things since you have received the Holy Ghost upon believing Jesus' sacrifice. No. He said do these things since you believe and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, the record specifies that they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine/teaching. (Acts 2:42)

Jesus stated that everyone will be judged by the word itself. (John 12:48) So it is necessary to actually do what the word says for one to expect to receive the Holy Ghost. Jesus said straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that will find it. (Matt 7:13-14)

How could a person repent unless they hear the call of repentance? The law of repentance inform us in a parable he must first turn us and then having heard the loving commandment repent we can turn or repent towards Him comforting us that we even can to begin with

I would suggest be careful and not like the Nicolaitans a sect named after its leader. They forgot their first love, the first experience of hearing God. . believing in a person not seen .They were giving the honor of God over the flesh as if we did need a man to teach us.

Note...(my addition)

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive God not seen, not man seen) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. Revelation2:


The law of repentance. . .Like Bullock not accustomed to be yoked with our Savoir. The work was harder, no rest coming from the Spirit .The Spirt in us must do the first work of turning us to hear the Holy Spirit . Then we can both know the will and turn towards it . Two turnings.

A warning. . .Like all thing if God says two, the father of lies one. The Holy Spirt says one, the spirt of lies two

Be careful how we hear or say.

Jeremiah 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: (Christ) turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.

Again either our living God does the first work or no work is accomplished.

 

[Dino246]

I would suggest be careful and not like the Nicolaitans a sect named after its leader. They forgot their first love, the first experience of hearing God. . believing in a person not seen .They were giving the honor of God over the flesh as if we did need a man to teach us.

Note...(my addition)

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive God not seen, not man seen) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. Revelation2:.

The text says nothing about the Nicolaitans either being named after its leader, and nothing about the Nicolaitans having forgotten their first love.

 

[Wansvic]

I’m afraid you missed the point of my comment.

You shared someone's opinion. I shared scripture.

 

[Sipsey]

You shared someone's opinion. I shared scripture.

You shared your opinion of what is written.

 

[wattie]

Please provide scripture showing one receives the Spirit the moment they believe.

Romans 10

John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36

The thief on the cross

Romans 5:8

What is the context of passages around receiving the Holy Spirit?

Is it about an individual receiving the Holy Spirit or a group being empowered?

That'll be how you establish the truth

 

[Blade]

Well simple " If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your Children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him." Did you ask the Father? Well we seem to believe what Jesus said in John 3:16-17 why not in Luke?

They were saved when Jesus went up yet He said "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. "

Jesus did what He said in Luke "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

I was saved for many years when in the bible study I use to got to they asked if I wanted the holy Spirit. I had no clue what they were asking. One night I said yes. They read only what the bible said and asked me again if I wanted the holy Spirit I said yes. They prayed then just stopped and said "thats it you got it". Yeah..that was it. Nothing what so ever happened. No one said a word. I got up I went to sit down and BAM tongues came out.

Holy Jesus.. it was like day and night. To live as a believer with out that. Then many years later putting 2 and 2 together. Well what happened in the word of God was exactly what happen to me! See in this bible study they simply believed that if GOD said it He will do it. All they did was take GOD as His word that if you just ask as said in Luke the Father will do it or give the holy Spirit.

I had never in my life said "sweet sweet" holy spirit. It meant nothing to me. NOW! Oh Hes everything yet never once speaks of Himself but only Christ and the Father.

All I can say is .. don't go by what ANY man says.. that means me also. If HE in the word said it.. just do it and believe. Don't question GOD! Give the Holy Spirit to "THEM" that ask Him.

 

[Wansvic]

Romans 10

John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36

The thief on the cross

Romans 5:8

What is the context of passages around receiving the Holy Spirit?

Is it about an individual receiving the Holy Spirit or a group being empowered?

That'll be how you establish the truth

None of the scriptures you reference speak specifically of receiving the Holy Ghost. All reference believing. A person's belief will be evidenced when they are obedient to instructions. Jesus emphasized more than belief alone on many occasions. Jesus will respond to some that believe in Him, depart from me, I NEVER knew you. Matt. 7:23

It is obvious as seen in Jesus' words that more than belief is required: "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Matt 7:24.

Scripture indicates the instructions given by Peter were for everyone individually. Obedience is required of all.

Peter's instructions state that ALL must repent, and be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) This promise was for all individuals whom the Lord would call. (Acts 2:39) Notice Peter's words; this promise is to you, (an individual) your children (individuals) and as many (individuals) the Lord thy God shall call. Compliance to these instructions were then witnessed in accounts of individual Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48) and Samaritans. (Acts 8:12-17) He did not say do these things since you have received the Holy Ghost upon believing Jesus' sacrifice. No. He said do these things since you believe and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Also, Paul's interaction with the disciples speaks to this truth as well. (Acts 19:1-6) Furthermore, the Pentecost record specifies that they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine/teaching. (Acts 2:42)


As far as the thief on the cross, he died under the OT. The spiritual rebirth was not available until after the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Wansvic]

You shared your opinion of what is written.

Please specify where anything presented comes from something other than the word. Thanks.

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.” Acts 2:32-33

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:2-4


Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” Acts 11:15

“While Peter yet these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:44-48


Paul’s interaction with the Ephesus disciples make it clear that tongues flowed from the disciples upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into their bodies:

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:1-6


The story of the Samaritan’s experience is interesting. It is another proof that one does not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe. Ask yourself, How did those present know that the Samaritans HAD NOT received the Holy Ghost when they believed? They knew it because they did not witness the outward evidence of tongues.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:12-18

What exactly did Simon see that made him the Holy Ghost had filled the Samaritans?


Consider what Jesus told Nicodemus, just as the wind, the Holy Ghost/Spirit cannot be seen but it can be heard:
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

 

[Sipsey]

Please specify where anything presented comes from something other than the word. Thanks.

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.” Acts 2:32-33

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:2-4


Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” Acts 11:15

“While Peter yet these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:44-48


Paul’s interaction with the Ephesus disciples make it clear that tongues flowed from the disciples upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into their bodies:

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:1-6


The story of the Samaritan’s experience is interesting. It is another proof that one does not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe. Ask yourself, How did those present know that the Samaritans HAD NOT received the Holy Ghost when they believed? They knew it because they did not witness the outward evidence of tongues.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:12-18

What exactly did Simon see that made him the Holy Ghost had filled the Samaritans?


Consider what Jesus told Nicodemus, just as the wind, the Holy Ghost/Spirit cannot be seen but it can be heard:
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

Every verse you or I quote is to fit the narrative we wish to convey. Jesus used many parables to illustrate truths. If you cannot convey Gods standards in any other way than to look up a verse and quote it verbatim, then you may fall short of the wisdom you wish to convey. Jesus, and the Apostles explained many OT verses with up to date motifs.

Our job as Christians is to define that Love and Peace Jesus so often speaks of. To boil doctrine down to a list of do’s & don’ts is to be like the religious people of His day.

Many today promote a “relative” righteousness. By that I mean that compared to the “unsaved” and unsure, you may view yourself as doing good. According to Gods standard, we all fall short. That is the standard we must keep uppermost in our thoughts. Jesus said, “You or I can do nothing without Him.” Unless our actions are motivated and empowered by the Holy Spirit, then we are acting carnal, no matter how good those works look.

I don’t preach easy believeism, I have endured and learned more through extreme suffering than during any period of prosperity. Our faith has a cost. All real love requires personal sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is a gift given by God. We are “Indwelt” at the point of salvation. We are commanded after we are saved to be “Filled” with the Spirit. Therein lies the problem that many Christians have, they dont understand the differenence.

You seem quite sincere, but sincereity is not the litmus test for maturity.

 

[Just_Jo]

I do not know about any one else's experiences with God,only my own.

I received the indwelling presense of the Holy Ghost as indicated in Acts,with the evidience of speaking in tongues.

I was NOT taught this nor instructed by ANY man,but yielded my vessel to God.

The Spirit still prays in an unknown ( to me) tongue when I pray and at times when I study the word.

I do not feel I am blessed with the gifts of the Spirit,neither do I seek them.

My one desire is to be filled and running over with the love of God!

 

[Scribe]

Now one thing we must take into consideration... In John 20:21 we have this ...

19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I am fully persuaded that when the resurrected glorified Son of God breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost" something actually happened. Namely they received the Holy Ghost.

After this He tells them to tarry in the city of Jerusalem until they are endued with power from on high to be witnesses for Him.

10 days later they are baptized in the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses.

What this doctrinally supports is that one is born again and receives the Holy Spirit for regeneration and sanctification. And then there is an Empowering of the Holy Spirit for witness.

To futher support this Multi functional purpose of the Giving, Filling, Outpouring of the Holy Spirit separate from sanctification and regeneration purpose we have this passage as well...

29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Since these also were those who were part of the Upper Room outpouring we see here that they were not BORN AGAIN from this event, they were already born again, and yet they received the Holy Ghost Filling for power for signs and wonders and to preach boldly demonstrating the purpose of the outpouring was separate from born again regeneration work.

SO your proposal that the scriptures teach that one must receive the empowering of the Holy Ghost for signs and wonders and to preach the word of God boldly as a witness and speak in tongues to be saved is faulty by this verse above and also because you have ignored their receiving the Holy Spirit before the day of Pentecost.

To suggest that people must speak in tongues as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for sanctification or as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for the first time is also faulty.

The only ones that I know that teach that one must speak in tongues as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for salvation that I am familiar with is the United Pentecostal Church of God In Christ. It is unfortunate that they have the word Pentecostal in their name because they are an embarrassment to the Pentecostal world.

 

[Wansvic]

Now one thing we must take into consideration... In John 20:21 we have this ...

19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I am fully persuaded that when the resurrected glorified Son of God breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost" something actually happened. Namely they received the Holy Ghost.

After this He tells them to tarry in the city of Jerusalem until they are endued with power from on high to be witnesses for Him.

10 days later they are baptized in the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses.

What this doctrinally supports is that one is born again and receives the Holy Spirit for regeneration and sanctification. And then there is an Empowering of the Holy Spirit for witness.

To futher support this Multi functional purpose of the Giving, Filling, Outpouring of the Holy Spirit separate from sanctification and regeneration purpose we have this passage as well...

29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Since these also were those who were part of the Upper Room outpouring we see here that they were not BORN AGAIN from this event, they were already born again, and yet they received the Holy Ghost Filling for power for signs and wonders and to preach boldly demonstrating the purpose of the outpouring was separate from born again regeneration work.

SO your proposal that the scriptures teach that one must receive the empowering of the Holy Ghost for signs and wonders and to preach the word of God boldly as a witness and speak in tongues to be saved is faulty by this verse above and also because you have ignored their receiving the Holy Spirit before the day of Pentecost.

To suggest that people must speak in tongues as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for sanctification or as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for the first time is also faulty.
The only ones that I know that teach that one must speak in tongues as evidence that they have received the Holy Spirit for salvation that I am familiar with is the United Pentecostal Church of God In Christ. It is unfortunate that they have the word Pentecostal in their name because they are an embarrassment to the Pentecostal world.

Receiving the Holy Ghost in connection with the NT rebirth experience and being empowered for witnessing are separate issues:

John 20:22 - This imparting of the Holy Ghost had to have been a partial limited gift. We know this to be true because Jesus said that the Holy Spirit could not be sent until after He ascended to the father. (John 16:7) The total infilling of the Holy Spirit required for the NT spiritual rebirth experience did not begin taking place until the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:4) Jesus referenced this in Acts 1:5-8, and Luke 24:49.

Your reference to scripture in Acts 2:29-31 speaks to the experience of being filled with the Spirit for witnessing, etc. This is separate from the initial baptism of the Holy Ghost that one receives as a part of their rebirth experience. This principle is seen in the parable of the 10 virgins. (Matt. 25)

 

[Scribe]

Your reference to scripture in Acts 2:29-31 speaks to the experience of being filled with the Spirit for witnessing, etc. This is separate from the initial baptism of the Holy Ghost that one receives as a part of their rebirth experience. This principle is seen in the parable of the 10 virgins. (Matt. 25)

If you take the words of Christ that they would be endued with power from on high to be a witness then you must conclude that the reason that they received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost was to be endued with power from on high to be a witness and NOT for the purpose of regeneration new birth which they had already.

 

[Wansvic]

Every verse you or I quote is to fit the narrative we wish to convey. Jesus used many parables to illustrate truths. If you cannot convey Gods standards in any other way than to look up a verse and quote it verbatim, then you may fall short of the wisdom you wish to convey. Jesus, and the Apostles explained many OT verses with up to date motifs.

Our job as Christians is to define that Love and Peace Jesus so often speaks of. To boil doctrine down to a list of do’s & don’ts is to be like the religious people of His day.

Many today promote a “relative” righteousness. By that I mean that compared to the “unsaved” and unsure, you may view yourself as doing good. According to Gods standard, we all fall short. That is the standard we must keep uppermost in our thoughts. Jesus said, “You or I can do nothing without Him.” Unless our actions are motivated and empowered by the Holy Spirit, then we are acting carnal, no matter how good those works look.

I don’t preach easy believeism, I have endured and learned more through extreme suffering than during any period of prosperity. Our faith has a cost. All real love requires personal sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is a gift given by God. We are “Indwelt” at the point of salvation. We are commanded after we are saved to be “Filled” with the Spirit. Therein lies the problem that many Christians have, they dont understand the differenence.

You seem quite sincere, but sincereity is not the litmus test for maturity.

I believe you are missing my point. Obedience to Peter's instructions in order for one's spiritual rebirth to take place is required of everyone. One's obedience has nothing to do with their being "good" compared to others. It is just something God requires of all. Because we are human we will all stumble and fall, none is better than another. However, without obedience to God's established way of being spiritually reborn none will enter Heaven. Jesus made this point in John 3:3-5.

I know my faults are many and do not in anyway believe I'm better than the next person. But, what I do know is that I want to be used to further God's kingdom. So I will always point people to what the word says. It is clear that obedience is required of everyone who truly believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and all He has done for mankind:

Acts 2:36-41
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

 

[Scribe]

I believe you are missing my point. Obedience to Peter's instructions in order for one's spiritual rebirth to take place is required of everyone. One's obedience has nothing to do with their being "good" compared to others. It is just something God requires of all. Because we are human we will all stumble and fall, none is better than another. However, without obedience to God's established way of being spiritually reborn none will enter Heaven. Jesus made this point in John 3:3-5.

I know my faults are many and do not in anyway believe I'm better than the next person. But, what I do know is that I want to be used to further God's kingdom. So I will always point people to what the word says. It is clear that obedience is required of everyone who truly believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and all He has done for mankind:

Acts 2:36-41
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

That passage of scripture is so good! It tells us right from the start what preaching the Gospel to the lost should look like. And it is chocked full of admonitions to turn away from sin and the sinful lifestyle and mindset of this corrupt and perverse world culture.
That message should be so loud and clear in our presentation of the Gospel that no one can mistake what we are inviting them too. Nothing less that an complete separation of sin and sinful living and lifestyle and radical obedience to Christ initiated by a promise on our part by baptism in water as an outward confession that we truly mean business with God.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I think there is a difference being baptized by Jim the pastor who struggles relentlessly with alcohol and pornography and Peter the Rock who walked with the Lord and received the Holy Spirit like “tongues of fire”. Even Christ declared He didn’t heal people. It was God through Him. The people’s faith was instrumental in their healing. Yeshua appeared to be more like a conduit. Is it possible our leaders who do not possess the purity or Spirit themselves and have poor “conductivity” spiritually? I think also it should be noted that thousands were being converted daily. It would be an interesting statistic to know how many of them spoke in tongues. Even as stated in the Bible, not all have the gift of tongues. I think it’s a dangerous doctrine to assume that if you don’t speak in tongues you aren’t saved or have the in dwelling Spirit. I think it’s a way He makes His presence known but not in everyone. I was witness to group of believers who just faked it. Apparently the whole church could speak in tongues. I think it hurt their witness more than helped it. I wonder how many of that group felt inadequate because they knew they were lying to fit in.

I think human agency matters very little; if you take my meaning.
Conviction and believing are a work of the the Holy Spirit in a person. Preaching and baptism have little to do with preachers and dipping folks in water, yeah it's what we do, but it is the power of the Holy Spirit working faith in the participants that gives effectiveness to these things.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The same with me and my hubby. blaspheming taken away immediately & at the same time. Cursing not so much 🤐 (someone judgymuch will pounce on that)

We aren't perfect yet, and we grow with time and prayer and study. Using coarse language can be a tough one sometimes. Don't take it that y'all aren't fill with the spirit because as Paul wrote in Romans about the internal struggle and the duality of our nature. Keep up the good fight.

 

[notuptome]

I believe you are missing my point. Obedience to Peter's instructions in order for one's spiritual rebirth to take place is required of everyone. One's obedience has nothing to do with their being "good" compared to others. It is just something God requires of all. Because we are human we will all stumble and fall, none is better than another. However, without obedience to God's established way of being spiritually reborn none will enter Heaven. Jesus made this point in John 3:3-5.

I know my faults are many and do not in anyway believe I'm better than the next person. But, what I do know is that I want to be used to further God's kingdom. So I will always point people to what the word says. It is clear that obedience is required of everyone who truly believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and all He has done for mankind:

Acts 2:36-41
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

Peter is not speaking to water baptism in this passage in Acts 2. Peter is addressing the baptism produced when one believes into Christ which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger