Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

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Batyah

Member
#961
Jul 22, 2020
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#961
Nehemiah6 said:
Soul Sleep is false doctrine. No one sleeps in Heaven. And all the saints go to Heaven immediately upon death. As Paul says "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". Just like Stephen, the souls and spirits of those who die in Christ go directly to Heaven. And all the saints who have passed on are presently in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24).
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I have NO idea how you contrived the notion that all saints who have died are in heaven when Hebrews 12 says no such thing????

One other point to ponder...
misquoting paul's statement (as you have) about being absent the body without the full sentence (abbreviating it) completely changes its meaning to fit the doctrine you prefer. He did NOT say being absent from the body means that we are immediately and automatically in the presence of God in Heaven. Your quote makes it appear to be a statement supporting the notion that we must immediately be in the Lord's presence as soon as we take our last breath. This is untrue and contradicts other scriptures and the basic premise of the Gospel of the Kingdom. It is a Kingdom destined for our current location. We are not going up, He is coming down.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#962
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#962
Batyah said:
I have NO idea how you contrived the notion that all saints who have died are in heaven when Hebrews 12 says no such thing????
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Please read Hebrews 12 again. All the saints are in the New Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem is in Heaven. So I have contrived nothing. On the other hand, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and the natural man cannot discern spiritual things.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#963
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#963
Batyah said:
It does NOT say that that place is up in Heaven.
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Again, spiritual things are only discerned spiritually. So I will leave you to wonder whether the Holy Spirit is telling you whether that place is NOT up in Heaven. The carnal mind cannot discern spiritual things.
 
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Batyah

Member
#964
Jul 22, 2020
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#964
Nehemiah6 said:
Again, spiritual things are only discerned spiritually. So I will leave you to wonder whether the Holy Spirit is telling you whether that place is NOT up in Heaven. The carnal mind cannot discern spiritual things.
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So you discerned this 'spiritually'?
and since I am of a carnal mind I cannot see what you can??

okey dokey
 
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Batyah

Member
#965
Jul 22, 2020
85
25
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earth.
#965
Nehemiah6 said:
Please read Hebrews 12 again. All the saints are in the New Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem is in Heaven. So I have contrived nothing. On the other hand, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and the natural man cannot discern spiritual things.
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Ok I read it again. Please tell me which verse claims that all saints who have already died are in the new Jerusalem now.
 
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