Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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Magenta said:
I see what you are saying as being the cause of the fall: pride. Man enthrones himself, instead of God.
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The tax collector in Luke 18 is vindicated. The prideful calvinist, I mean Pharisee, on the other hand . . . 😊
 
Grandpa said:
I made all kinds of great decisions. The first one was reading the bible over and over from cover to cover. The second one was trying to do what Jesus commanded. The third one was asking the Lord for His Help when I found out I could not do the things He Commanded. All my prayers were perfectly aligned with the Will of God and attaining Salvation.

I was amazing. Or, I should say, the Lord and I were amazing...:ROFL:

And that was when I found out that it was the Lord that was leading me the whole time and not my "genius" and great decisions.
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And yet you may not be saved according to your calvinist theology.
 
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Grandpa said:
I can't tell you exactly when the gift of salvation is received. Is it when we perceive it or was it when we were being "persuaded". Was it way before that? Was the mark of salvation always on us?


By passive act you mean we agree with what is happening on the road to salvation? Yes, more or less.
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Paul does state that we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I would surmise that the gift of salvation is received when God bestows that gift. In the eyes of God salvation was always on those that received it regardless of one's perception. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin. Perhaps the Holy Spirit convicts us of our salvation. It would be at that point that fear and trembling is cast aside as we would then know the blessed assured hope that we will one day rise from the dead to be with the Lord.
 
Grandpa said:
Because you could be the instrument through which God uses to bring people to Salvation.

And because you can't really help it because the Truth just comes bubbling out.... You are what God has made you.



Even if you did have a choice you wouldn't have the skill or the ability to do what only God can do. You can't overpower God by an act of your will and make Him save you.
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Wasting your breath if you are arguing no choice in the matter and or the Calvinistic heretical view.....My bible is clear and men must chose and is exactly WHY THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE....both CREATION AND THE INVISIBLE TESTIFY AND MANY ARE CALLED but few CHOSEN BECAUSE THE MANY CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE.......

Even JESUS took flesh, was tempted and CHOSE!!!!
 
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Grandpa said:
This is what I was talking about;

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
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Yes I see Keep reading. What changed? By grace through faith they were saved and out of that salvation they were created for good works .
 
Grandpa said:
No, I didn't hear.

I really liked Willie T.

Well, at least we know we'll see him again. Or, for the first time, really.
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My wife and I had lunch quite a few times with WillieT and his wife. His wife called to tell us the bad news. Very sad and sudden. Yes, we will see him again. Believe me, he is one person that is worth meeting.
 
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If men have no choice or no ability to see the testimony of creation and or the teatimony of the invisible (Romans) then the statement (they are without excuse) has no purpose. If God made men for hell the above statement is idiotic........A man made for hell has no choice, even though creation testifies and makes them accountable and without excuse, yet they have no option or choice to believe even though everything testifies to them...

Calvinism is occultic...end of story!
 
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dcontroversal said:
If men have no choice or no ability to see the testimony of creation and or the teatimony of the invisible (Romans) then the statement (they are without excuse) has no purpose. If God made men for hell the above statement is idiotic........A man made for hell has no choice, even though creation testifies and makes them accountable and without excuse, yet they have no option or choice to believe even though everything testifies to them...

Calvinism is occultic...end of story!
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Agree 100%

There is some irony/tragedy in that Calvin who preached the "bondage of the will" had no problem putting other people's will under his bondage.
 
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Grandpa said:
Well that was a long way to travel to try and prove that the fruit of the spirit doesn't include faith.

Its not believable. But you tried.
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no no. it's ok. the laptop was right on the coffee table and I was on the sofa. not too far at all. :giggle:
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Well the Bible tells us very plainly where faith comes from -- it comes from hearing the Gospel (Rom 10:17). It is generally called "faith" in Scripture, not "belief".

Indeed, the entire 10th chapter of Romans is dedicated to the importance of the preaching of the Gospel and how it produces saving faith (while the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces through the Gospel). So the idea that God selects some *special* individuals to have saving faith while ignoring or neglecting others is purely BOGUS.

ROMANS 10: SAVING FAITH IS GENERATED BY THE GOSPEL

1. GOD WANTED ALL ISRAEL TO BE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

2. THE LAW CANNOT MAKE ANY MAN PERFECT
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

3. RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above ) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

4. SALVATION IS BY BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH FAITH
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

5. FAITH IS GENERATED BY HEARING THE GOSPEL
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

6. ISRAEL AND THE WORLD HEARD THE GOSPEL SINCE MOSES
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

7. ISRAEL REFUSED TO BELIEVE THE GOSPEL
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
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That's worded sort of oddly, isn't it?

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God.


The bible talks about people who have ears but do not hear. When do those people with ears start hearing?

When the Word of God causes them to hear.
 
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