Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[NOV25]

boggles the mind it does

if, as tulip states, one cannot be saved unless first regenerated, then why do you now state a person can think for themself if presented with the option of God granted or worldy repentance

I don't suppose you saw that you did that though. The truth still manages to escape through the well groomed tulip gardens

Once again, your ability to contort the written word far exceeds your ability to comprehend it.
In no way did I claim one is “presented with the option of God granted or worldly repentance”.
This is worse than I thought...

 

[lenna]

Interesting eh? ... I guess a bit of a need to back peddle a bit on the harshness of the dogma.

I thought that the edge might have been off due to all those memes being posted with no actual dogma needing to be advertised

out of practice, yah know?

 

[EleventhHour]

I thought that the edge might have been off due to all those memes being posted with no actual dogma needing to be advertised

out of practice, yah know?

Notice how we are never able to understand, comprehend, and are unlearned....

 

[NOV25]

Notice how we are never able to understand, comprehend, and are unlearned....

Yeah, we noticed.

 

[Grandpa]

?? Did not Paul say the opposite the n romans 1 bro?

This is what I was talking about;

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[Grandpa]

I did not make a great decision. I just did as the tax collector did and became bancrupcy and cried out for mercy

I made all kinds of great decisions. The first one was reading the bible over and over from cover to cover. The second one was trying to do what Jesus commanded. The third one was asking the Lord for His Help when I found out I could not do the things He Commanded. All my prayers were perfectly aligned with the Will of God and attaining Salvation.

I was amazing. Or, I should say, the Lord and I were amazing...

And that was when I found out that it was the Lord that was leading me the whole time and not my "genius" and great decisions.

 

[lenna]

Notice how we are never able to understand, comprehend, and are unlearned....

Calvinist Playbook

At least they aren't killing us anymore. It's currently against the law

 

[Grandpa]

fruit grows on trees or even bushes, but you would have fruit suspended in nothingness

the word 'fruit' is a metaphor for the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, to produce the character of Christ in us

the Holy Spirit does not work in a non believers life in that manner. you will not find such a thing as you state anywhere in the Bible

Jesus draws people as He states if He is lifted up He will DRAW (all men unto him..women too) . if you think that the faith a person has is caused by the Holy Spirit BEFORE they are saved, then WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE FRUIT?

HUH? WHERE'S IT AT?

here is Galatians 5 containing the description of the fruit of the Spirit

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Note that faith is actually translated faithfulness here, which is in keeping with the rest of the descriptions, rather than faith. The faithfulness is to God, to Christ....it is not the faith that saves, it is the faith that keeps a person IN Christ

But I digress, if a tulip person thinks they are regenerated BEFORE salvation, then where is the rest of the fruit?

I would tend to think they do not need salvation if they are already on board and loving, joyous, patient etc, little calvins running around such as the fine examples in this thread

Well that was a long way to travel to try and prove that the fruit of the spirit doesn't include faith.

Its not believable. But you tried.

 

[Grandpa]

It is God's will and desire that none shall perish but all have everlasting life. He is fully capable of accomplishing this.

I would be the last one to say that God couldn't do something.

We don't know Gods whole plan. No matter how some people claim the opposite.

 

[Grandpa]

“But the objection is not yet resolved, that if all things are done by the will of God, and men contrive nothing except by His will and ordination, then God is the author of all evils.”
John Calvin

God's sovereignty is not properly understood within the Calvinist dogma... rather than correctly understand how God works in the affairs of men... and brings His to pass without direct control Calvin makes God responsible for all evil.... Calvin has issues with his own will, and the will of others as did Augustine.

There is some irony in that Calvin who preached the "bondage of the will" had no problem putting other people's will under his bondage.

God in the end did give us "a will" and the ability to choose and this is evidenced throughout scripture.

The ability to choose what?

You can't choose something you don't believe in. Its an impossibility.

You can only choose what you do believe in.


And then we ask the simple question "where did that belief come from to begin with"?

 

[Magenta]

@Grandpa nice to see you .. and just checking in, did you hear that Willie T passed away recently?

 

[EleventhHour]

The ability to choose what?

You can't choose something you don't believe in. Its an impossibility.

You can only choose what you do believe in.


And then we ask the simple question "where did that belief come from to begin with"?

One has to hear the Gospel.

The gospel is “the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes” (Rom. 1:16).

“For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth” (Rom 1:18 HCSB).

Why would unbelievers need to suppress the truth if they are born unable to believe it?

Interesting, that some unregenerate people do not suppress the truth, but actively seek to know more of it ...ie Cornelius

 

[NOV25]

You have not forgotten that you were Gentiles, following dumb idols just as you had been taught. Now I want you to understand, as Christians, that no one speaking by the Spirit of God could call Jesus accursed, and no one could say that he is the Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. Men have different gifts, but it is the same Spirit who gives them. There are different ways of serving God, but it is the same Lord who is served. God works through different men in different ways, but it is the same God who achieves his purposes through them all. Each man is given his gift by the Spirit that he may make the most of it. One man’s gift by the Spirit is to speak with wisdom, another’s to speak with knowledge. The same Spirit gives to another man faith, to another the ability to heal, to another the power to do great deeds. The same Spirit gives to another man the gift of preaching the word of God, to another the ability to discriminate in spiritual matters, to another speech in different tongues. Behind all these gifts is the operation of the same Spirit, who distributes to each individual man, as he wills.

Pelagians, pickpocketing the Holy Spirit since 360ad

Uhoh there’s my next meme!

 

[Nehemiah6]

And then we ask the simple question "where did that belief come from to begin with"?

Well the Bible tells us very plainly where faith comes from -- it comes from hearing the Gospel (Rom 10:17). It is generally called "faith" in Scripture, not "belief".

Indeed, the entire 10th chapter of Romans is dedicated to the importance of the preaching of the Gospel and how it produces saving faith (while the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces through the Gospel). So the idea that God selects some *special* individuals to have saving faith while ignoring or neglecting others is purely BOGUS.

ROMANS 10: SAVING FAITH IS GENERATED BY THE GOSPEL

1. GOD WANTED ALL ISRAEL TO BE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

2. THE LAW CANNOT MAKE ANY MAN PERFECT
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

3. RIGHTEOUSNESS IS IMPUTED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above ) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

4. SALVATION IS BY BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH FAITH
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

5. FAITH IS GENERATED BY HEARING THE GOSPEL
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

6. ISRAEL AND THE WORLD HEARD THE GOSPEL SINCE MOSES
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

7. ISRAEL REFUSED TO BELIEVE THE GOSPEL
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[EleventhHour]

the Spirit would know best what it means. the Spirit and the writers of the Scriptures.


it is good to keep a somewhat open mind on things so to Allow the Spirit to speak.


for the Spirit knows more than we do. but We can learn more and more if we keep our minds open.

As long as you are discerning and test it against scripture.

 

[tourist]

I would be the last one to say that God couldn't do something.

We don't know Gods whole plan. No matter how some people claim the opposite.

We don't know the whole plan because we do not understand the ways of God fully. Somehow, I find it comforting not fully knowing or even coming close to understanding God. God is Love and that means that very good things, some of which that we don't understand are coming our way.

 

[tourist]

“But the objection is not yet resolved, that if all things are done by the will of God, and men contrive nothing except by His will and ordination, then God is the author of all evils.”
John Calvin

Perhaps it is best to not read Calvin because he sounds like an absolute whack job regarding spiritual concerns.

 

[EleventhHour]

Perhaps it is best to not read Calvin because he sounds like an absolute whack job regarding spiritual concerns.

Agree...... only when necessary.

 

[Duskey]

That's usually the response I get when I tell people who worship their own will that they in fact do worship their own will.

They get upset. They get mad.

What is so special about your will anyway? Isn't trading it for Gods Will a much better trade?

Like I said, I thought you had more credibility. And no, I’m not upset or mad.

 

[Duskey]

This is part of the free will’ers problem, they truly believe man is autonomous: self governing or without outside governance, acting without ANY outside influence or limitation. This is an unbiblical, pagan view of the will of man. One only needs to read the Bible to see the will of man is fallen after Adam and Eve, like a disease that plagues all mankind. His will, his reason and his logic, his heart mind and soul, is evil continuously in need of cleansing. Cleansing offered only by God the Spirit who comes to whom he wills, when he wills and why he wills, for his own glory that no man may boast.
Sorry free will’ers, you’re not autonomous, you’re not gods who resurrect yourselves from the dead, who remove your own hearts of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh, who summon God the Spirit and command Him to dwell within...

It sure would suck for you if you’re condemned even though you place your faith in calvin, I mean Christ. God’s will, you know.