Is God In Control OF Everything

[Peterlag]

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know.

This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him.

 

[Corban]

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know.

This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him.

You have presented some nice arguments. I also admit that God's intimate and comprehensive foreknowledge is something I believe, but cannot fully explain or demonstrate. But I think your conclusion in the second paragraph, "This raises a serious problem", is more a human perspective. It is not arrogant or self assuming, but it brings God down to our level, and the logical end of this is that we sit in judgment of our Supreme Judge. God made man in His likeness and image so that man could mirror, or display God. A free will is then obligatory. But a God Who is so superior to even our most expansive imaginations, need not explain, nor apologize, for being so good at arranging circumstances, and to wit, having intimate foreknowledge of what will be done by His creature, and what He will respond with. It is enough that Jehovah is never taken by surprise, and knows the beginning from the end. He must not meet our standard. It is up to us to represent Him accurately.

 

[Gregoryp]

It was planned from the beginning, free will and freedom must over take tyranny. Its for man to decide who to follow, the prince of darkness or the mighty creator, Jesus Christ. How can there be love without freedom?

 

[wolfwint]

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know.

This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him.

Who else should be in control? Why we try to explain Him and his motives with our limited understanding? We should sometimes wait till we are in eternity to get some answers.

 

[Lafftur]

YES, God is in control of everything BUT, He has chosen to give us free will because He wants us to know Him and love Him.......Love without a choice is NOT love.

 

[BenFTW]

I imagine God knows every possible future, and every consequence of an action taken. This is why the Lord can say if a person would’ve done that, then this would’ve happened or if you do this then this will occur. He sees the dominos fall and where they lead. He can also divinely intervene to accomplish His will and plans. He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

Not everything that happens is His doing, however. Scripture says that God tempts no man, and yet they face temptation. He won’t allow you to face a temptation that you aren’t able to withstand however and that is His divine intervention at play.

So we see that God is intimately involved in our lives but not all things in our lives are from God. Some things are of our own doing and a natural consequence. Others are outside of our control and in the free will of others (yet not free of God’s watchful eye). It was that person’s choice to sin against you, for example. While God may choose to not infringe upon their free will, it doesn’t mean He won’t protect you from their free will. Hence, “many are the afflictions of the righteous, but He delivers them from them all.” This could be said of self inflicted afflictions (in need of healing) as well. A poor diet, not God ordained, but dependent upon what you prick with the fork or sip with the spoon is an example of free will (and potential consequences self induced). Yet God also divinely intervenes through healing.

God’s foreknowledge and ability to connect the dots of the so called “butterfly effect”, in my knowledge, almost seems mathematical. Cause and effect. Not just opening up a book and seeing chapter by chapter as if all time is set in stone, but orchestrating the events He has prophesied to happen divinely. I actually think it’s a bit of both, seeing and creating. This will happen and this will happen because God will bring it to pass.

God is sovereign. 🤷🏻‍♂️😄

 

[Nehemiah6]

If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

This would be an attempt by a mere mortal to try and comprehend God, who ultimately is incomprehensible.

"Is God In Control OF Everything?" It will depend on what people mean by "control".

1. If it means that all of the universe and all of creation operate under the natural laws of God, then that is indeed control.

2. However, if it means that every human action is foreordained by God, then that is incorrect. God has created man to be a free moral agent, which means that there are consequences for all choices -- good or bad. But every individual is accountable for his own choices.

3. If it means that the crucifixion and death of Christ were predetermined and foreordained, then that is consistent with Scripture.

4. If it means that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation, then that is contrary to Scripture, and is false.

5. If it means that God intervenes in the lives of human beings for His own reason, then that is also correct. But that intervention is not continuous, and not for all.

 

[Lanolin]

You can always just ask Him.

What does He say?

 

[oyster67]

Yes HE is. Aren't you glad that He chooses to give us a choice?

 

[garee]

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know.

This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him.

We are made aware of the wiles of the evil one that he would call "free will" .

The governing law .Thou shalt not, or you shall surely dies was not written by the finger of the father of lies as you would have others believe . The Bible speaks of two kinds of death . One eternal never to rise to new life and the other that does rise .

We walk by the unseen faith that comes from hearing God. Mixing it with the things seen the temporal .Then we can rest as our savior makes a burden lighter .

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

 

[cuz]

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

mat 2:16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
18 “A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”[d]


Daniel 4:34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?

seems God gives alot of freedoms
but when man goes to far
God will correct him
as far as Gods plan i say he has 1 plan only the serpent made a stumble in his plan
Nebuchadnezzar seem to think he controlled all but found out it was God that blessed what he had done and built

 

[Lafftur]

NOTE: The following post has been copied and pasted from another thread (Righteousness) of @Peterlag that I posted on regarding the same statements of his:

Peter, philosophy is fun and entertaining thinking for the human mind but, it really cannot compare to the Holy Spirit opening our understanding of the scriptures and even the depths of God's knowledge and understanding of life, creation, science, universe(s), witty inventions, etc.

Consider all that God gave to Daniel........

It's also worth noting that it takes far more self-confidence, more wisdom, more love, and more sensitivity to govern what is personal and free, than it does to govern that which one has absolute control of. A God totally in control can run a world of controlled beings. But what is magnificent about that? If everything in the universe is already set? Then the conversation God has with humans is more like that between a ventriloquist and the dummy. Such a dialogue is merely a sophisticated form of talking to oneself.

God's conversation with humans is NOT a sophisticated form of God talking to Himself - God says to us, "Come, let us reason together....."

God does have a dilemma.....

God is Love and the greatest need of Love is "to love and be loved" yet, love CANNOT be created because Love has to have a choice or it is NOT love. God had to create man with the capacity to love but, ONLY if the person chooses to do so.

God has to set up a system (safety net/boundary lines) that can accommodate all of our choices - blessings and curses, death and life, judgment and rewards, recompense and forgiveness, etc.

God is greatly desiring a loving relationship with each of us and He is governing with absolute control yet, He chooses to give us free will because He does NOT want pre-programmed robots, rather God wants us to KNOW Him, to LOVE Him and be loved by Him.

Jesus Christ's Blood and Body reconciled us back to our Father in Heaven and we can now be in fellowship with God through Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit BUT, we have to CHOOSE to do so.

If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions.

Oh Peter, you're tripping over human reasoning trying to understand God.......you will need the Holy Spirit to understand God. Go and find all the references to the Holy Spirit, Spirit, Holy Ghost in the scriptures and ask God for His Holy Spirit.

God would need to explain to you the element of TIME and His AUTHORITY over TIME and the view from the Heavenly Realm - all that God sees. Trying to understand with our human minds is unattainable. If we try, we're just simply a hamster on a wheel - going nowhere really fast - never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.

Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know.

There is a scroll in Heaven with 7 Seals that contains the Master Plan of God - The Father is the Architect, The Son is the General Contractor and the Holy Spirit is the Foreman on cite (Earth), the Angels and Believers are the Laborers.

God knows exactly what He has done, is doing and will do - He has written ALL of it down.

This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him.

You have misunderstood God but, He does reveal Himself and His plans and purposes to those that love Him with all their heart and diligently seek Him personally - not to know about Him but, to know Him.

You cannot use "philosophy" to understand God. You will only understand by the Holy Spirit.

May you encounter Him, know Him and love Him - then, He will share His secrets with you........

 

[oyster67]

NOTE: The following post has been copied and pasted from another thread (Righteousness) of @Peterlag that I posted on regarding the same statements of his:

Peter, philosophy is fun and entertaining thinking for the human mind but, it really cannot compare to the Holy Spirit opening our understanding of the scriptures and even the depths of God's knowledge and understanding of life, creation, science, universe(s), witty inventions, etc.

Consider all that God gave to Daniel........



God's conversation with humans is NOT a sophisticated form of God talking to Himself - God says to us, "Come, let us reason together....."

God does have a dilemma.....

God is Love and the greatest need of Love is "to love and be loved" yet, love CANNOT be created because Love has to have a choice or it is NOT love. God had to create man with the capacity to love but, ONLY if the person chooses to do so.

God has to set up a system (safety net/boundary lines) that can accommodate all of our choices - blessings and curses, death and life, judgment and rewards, recompense and forgiveness, etc.

God is greatly desiring a loving relationship with each of us and He is governing with absolute control yet, He chooses to give us free will because He does NOT want pre-programmed robots, rather God wants us to KNOW Him, to LOVE Him and be loved by Him.

Jesus Christ's Blood and Body reconciled us back to our Father in Heaven and we can now be in fellowship with God through Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit BUT, we have to CHOOSE to do so.



Oh Peter, you're tripping over human reasoning trying to understand God.......you will need the Holy Spirit to understand God. Go and find all the references to the Holy Spirit, Spirit, Holy Ghost in the scriptures and ask God for His Holy Spirit.

God would need to explain to you the element of TIME and His AUTHORITY over TIME and the view from the Heavenly Realm - all that God sees. Trying to understand with our human minds is unattainable. If we try, we're just simply a hamster on a wheel - going nowhere really fast - never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.



There is a scroll in Heaven with 7 Seals that contains the Master Plan of God - The Father is the Architect, The Son is the General Contractor and the Holy Spirit is the Foreman on cite (Earth), the Angels and Believers are the Laborers.

God knows exactly what He has done, is doing and will do - He has written ALL of it down.



You have misunderstood God but, He does reveal Himself and His plans and purposes to those that love Him with all their heart and diligently seek Him personally - not to know about Him but, to know Him.

You cannot use "philosophy" to understand God. You will only understand by the Holy Spirit.

May you encounter Him, know Him and love Him - then, He will share His secrets with you........

AMEN!!! Praise God that He delivered us from that old hamster wheel !!!

 

[Peterlag]

NOTE: The following post has been copied and pasted from another thread (Righteousness) of @Peterlag that I posted on regarding the same statements of his:

Peter, philosophy is fun and entertaining thinking for the human mind but, it really cannot compare to the Holy Spirit opening our understanding of the scriptures and even the depths of God's knowledge and understanding of life, creation, science, universe(s), witty inventions, etc.

Consider all that God gave to Daniel........



God's conversation with humans is NOT a sophisticated form of God talking to Himself - God says to us, "Come, let us reason together....."

God does have a dilemma.....

God is Love and the greatest need of Love is "to love and be loved" yet, love CANNOT be created because Love has to have a choice or it is NOT love. God had to create man with the capacity to love but, ONLY if the person chooses to do so.

God has to set up a system (safety net/boundary lines) that can accommodate all of our choices - blessings and curses, death and life, judgment and rewards, recompense and forgiveness, etc.

God is greatly desiring a loving relationship with each of us and He is governing with absolute control yet, He chooses to give us free will because He does NOT want pre-programmed robots, rather God wants us to KNOW Him, to LOVE Him and be loved by Him.

Jesus Christ's Blood and Body reconciled us back to our Father in Heaven and we can now be in fellowship with God through Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit BUT, we have to CHOOSE to do so.



Oh Peter, you're tripping over human reasoning trying to understand God.......you will need the Holy Spirit to understand God. Go and find all the references to the Holy Spirit, Spirit, Holy Ghost in the scriptures and ask God for His Holy Spirit.

God would need to explain to you the element of TIME and His AUTHORITY over TIME and the view from the Heavenly Realm - all that God sees. Trying to understand with our human minds is unattainable. If we try, we're just simply a hamster on a wheel - going nowhere really fast - never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.



There is a scroll in Heaven with 7 Seals that contains the Master Plan of God - The Father is the Architect, The Son is the General Contractor and the Holy Spirit is the Foreman on cite (Earth), the Angels and Believers are the Laborers.

God knows exactly what He has done, is doing and will do - He has written ALL of it down.



You have misunderstood God but, He does reveal Himself and His plans and purposes to those that love Him with all their heart and diligently seek Him personally - not to know about Him but, to know Him.

You cannot use "philosophy" to understand God. You will only understand by the Holy Spirit.

May you encounter Him, know Him and love Him - then, He will share His secrets with you........

I don't know anything about "philosophy". I posted God is not in control. You said it was biblical that He does. I said it did not come from God but from Augustine who was Catholic. From that you turned my words into church history or "philosophy". And that's why you scare me. You take all of my posts out of comtext and spin them into a different subject.

 

[Peterlag]

This would be an attempt by a mere mortal to try and comprehend God, who ultimately is incomprehensible.

"Is God In Control OF Everything?" It will depend on what people mean by "control".

1. If it means that all of the universe and all of creation operate under the natural laws of God, then that is indeed control.

2. However, if it means that every human action is foreordained by God, then that is incorrect. God has created man to be a free moral agent, which means that there are consequences for all choices -- good or bad. But every individual is accountable for his own choices.

3. If it means that the crucifixion and death of Christ were predetermined and foreordained, then that is consistent with Scripture.

4. If it means that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation, then that is contrary to Scripture, and is false.

5. If it means that God intervenes in the lives of human beings for His own reason, then that is also correct. But that intervention is not continuous, and not for all.

Thank You. I'm called a devil by the first 5 people who responded to this until you agreed with me.

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

 

[Peterlag]

Who else should be in control? Why we try to explain Him and his motives with our limited understanding? We should sometimes wait till we are in eternity to get some answers.

So whats your point? Stay stupid now?

 

[Peterlag]

You have presented some nice arguments. I also admit that God's intimate and comprehensive foreknowledge is something I believe, but cannot fully explain or demonstrate. But I think your conclusion in the second paragraph, "This raises a serious problem", is more a human perspective. It is not arrogant or self assuming, but it brings God down to our level, and the logical end of this is that we sit in judgment of our Supreme Judge. God made man in His likeness and image so that man could mirror, or display God. A free will is then obligatory. But a God Who is so superior to even our most expansive imaginations, need not explain, nor apologize, for being so good at arranging circumstances, and to wit, having intimate foreknowledge of what will be done by His creature, and what He will respond with. It is enough that Jehovah is never taken by surprise, and knows the beginning from the end. He must not meet our standard. It is up to us to represent Him accurately.

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

 

[Lafftur]

I don't know anything about "philosophy". I posted God is not in control. You said it was biblical that He does. I said it did not come from God but from Augustine who was Catholic. From that you turned my words into church history or "philosophy". And that's why you scare me. You take all of my posts out of comtext and spin them into a different subject.

@Peterlag -

The following is your post #88 on your "Righteousness" Thread that I originally responded to.....notice, you do mention PHILOSOPHY.

So if there is no verse in the Scriptures stating God is “omniscient” meaning He knows the past, the present, and the future? Then why do so many Christians believe God is omniscient?

The answer is: Ancient Greek Mythology and Philosophy.

 

[SoulWeaver]

@Peterlag -

The following is your post #88 on your "Righteousness" Thread that I originally responded to.....notice, you do mention PHILOSOPHY.

So if there is no verse in the Scriptures stating God is “omniscient” meaning He knows the past, the present, and the future? Then why do so many Christians believe God is omniscient?

The answer is: Ancient Greek Mythology and Philosophy.

Hmmm........ No verse.......
I post this for the record, for anyone who might believe such...

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

 

[Lafftur]

Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation.

Please stop using human reasoning to try to understand the scriptures. Let the Holy Spirit teach you - ask the Father for His Promise - the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

All that believe and are born again by the Spirit and water - just as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 and later in John 3:16.....all that believe and are born again are saved and their eternal Salvation in Jesus Christ is secure - they can see and enter the Kingdom of God but, not all saved are the Bride of Christ.

Notice these that are SAVED are BORN again.........However, The Bride of Christ is SELECTED from among all that are born again/saved.

MARRIAGE is different from BIRTH. You are confusing the two.