Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[EleventhHour]

It is biblical. 2 Peter 3:9 is written to the elect. He is patient with "us," not willing any (of "us," those he has chosen) should perish, but that all (same audience and context still "us") should come to repentance.

You know what I am not understanding is why the word "elect" was not used, I think God knew the word since He used it in other places.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting the elect to perish, but elect to come to repentance.

Now isn't that interesting, the elect can perish another

 

[tourist]

Why would God make someone who He had no intension of choosing?

He probably wouldn't.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yet my statement is very substantiated. God is not willing that any should perish. If Calvinism were true, then none would. His grace is irresistable, you know.

You're using 2 Peter 3:9 out of context to arrive at your conclusion.

If Calvinism were true none would perish? That's the antithesis of Calvinism and better describes Universalism. It is an errant conclusion and straw man bro.

What does "irresistible grace" teach in your opinion?

 

[oyster67]

Either we believe that some are born into an elect master-class, or we don't.

 

[Magenta]

You know what I am not understanding is why the word "elect" was not used, I think God knew the word since He used it in other places.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting the elect to perish, but elect to come to repentance.

Now isn't that interesting, the elect can perish another

2 Peter 3:9

 

[oyster67]

He probably wouldn't.

Goody! We are all going to heaven because of irresistible grace.

 

[Magenta]

Why would God make someone who He had no intension of choosing?

He probably wouldn't.

Revelation 22:16-17

 

[fredoheaven]

It is biblical. 2 Peter 3:9 is written to the elect. He is patient with "us," not willing any (of "us," those he has chosen) should perish, but that all (same audience and context still "us") should come to repentance. It isn't about the world at large but shows the reason why God has not ended all things as per the context of what Peter is saying . He is patiently awaiting all of his elect, the "us" to come to repentance in time in this age. When all the chosen are gathered in, then the end will come of which Peter is speaking.

He has stated He shows mercy on whom He wills, and some he hardens. He doesn't owe man anything. That's why grace is grace, it is given without the person meriting favor. If it is obligated or deemed not fair and that everyone deserves "a chance" then it isn't grace at all, it's been turned into obligation. People feel man deserves a chance, but man doesn't deserve this at all. That's why it is still called grace.

If by context you meant, then consider also the previous verses. That would include in the 'any' and 'all' those 'scoffers' being ignorant of the word of God (vv3-5) and those 'ungodly men' who have perished though because of unrepentant attitude during the worldwide flood (vv.6-7). It says says then in 2 Peter 3;9 that the Lord is slack concerning his promise iow, God did'nt stopped providing a way of escape as Noah found grace, he builds the Ark which typifies Christ for salvation. The ark provision is offered to all but people that day won't listen coming into their own perdition being unrepentant. The "all' is extended to the whole.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Why would God make someone who He had no intension of choosing?

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself:
yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

This verse seems to give support to Calvin's side.

 

[dcontroversal]

I wish we could just drop all these labels and phrases and ask;

"Do All Have A Choice"?

Choose you this day whom you will serve!

Jesus was given milk and honey that he may know to CHOOSE the good over the evil

Joshua and Isaiah were inspired....Calvin was not and this thread is disgusting!!

 

[EleventhHour]

Choose you this day whom you will serve!

Jesus was given milk and honey that he may know to CHOOSE the good over the evil

Joshua and Isaiah were inspired....Calvin was not and this thread is disgusting!!

Amen and sad!

 

[dcontroversal]

I can’t answer that question bro....because I don’t know the answer.xx....

The answer is...Calvin was false, so is the tulip doctrine pushed in this thread!

 

[NOV25]

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory. It is by grace you are saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[jackrosie]

The answer is...Calvin was false, so is the tulip doctrine pushed in this thread!

Sorry,I disagree,when I was saved it was irresistible..I can’t deny that dc....also the fruit of the Spirit...that is my main focus...God has called me to bear much fruit.....

I don’t want to argue about it dc..I have to be truthful on what I believe/received.....what I have spoken above is truthful and biblical.

Challenge me as much as you like.....I don’t know a lot about Calvin..but do agree with them about the above.

I’m sorry we fell out...I hope we can make amends and listen to each other....without forcing anything on to the other.

I want to be friends not your enemy.
By the way,I had a breakthrough I have been given more maturity by the Lord..how immature was I dc,lol...I’m crying typing this to you.....why I have no idea....maybe because you were genuinely trying to help me....the thing is though bro....I must be true now to what I believe.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. This verse seems to give support to Calvin's side.

Not really.

This speaks of the divine foreknowledge of God who sees all the wicked standing before the Great White Throne to be judged by Christ, the Righteous Judge. Their "day of evil" will be the day when they are cast into the Lake of Fire.

But the Bible tells us that God does not DESIRE the damnation of the wicked. They choose their wickedness and therefore choose eternal Hell.

 

[Nehemiah6]

ALL THESE SCRIPTURES NEED TO BE CORRECTLY UNDERSTOOD

THE SUPERNATURAL NEW BIRTH

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

THE ABSOLUTE NECESSITY OF THE SUPERNATURAL NEW BIRTH
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

SALVATION IS NOT BY HUMAN EFFORT BUT BY THE GRACE (MERCY) OF GOD
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

VESSELS OF WRATH AND VESSELS OF MERCY EXIST SIDE BY SIDE
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.

[Note: We need to see the whole tenor of Scripture to understand this passage, which is generally misunderstood by Calvinists. It is definitely not teaching that some are elected for salvation, while others are elected for damnation. The key to understanding this passage is found here: [God] has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

This tells us clearly that God allows sinners a great deal of time to repent, but He already knows who will not repent, and they have already become "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" (or damnation). Good examples are the people of Noah's day who were given 120 years to repent, and also Pharaoh who opposed God over and over again when he had every reason to repent].

SALVATION IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT OF WORKS
It is by grace you are saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[jackrosie]

I had a supernatural birth....I will never deny that.....I felt the Lord’s pure ,true Love coming into my spirit...I will never ever deny that...that is how I was saved....I recognised the Holy Spirit straight away....I could not resist him.......his Love turned my Spirit to putty..I fell in Love with him instantly.

That is my testimony...nothing dirty in it what so ever....just pure,true Love of God.

I remember it like it happened yesterday....that was 28 yrs ago.

 

[oyster67]

.I don’t know a lot about Calvin..but do agree with them about the above.

I agree with some of the things they say also, but that doesn't make us Calvinist. We are Christians. Calvinist know all about Calvinism because they invented it. Christ is all we need. Toss Calvin in the dumpster where He belongs. He said some very bad things.

 

[dcontroversal]

Not really.

This speaks of the divine foreknowledge of God who sees all the wicked standing before the Great White Throne to be judged by Christ, the Righteous Judge. Their "day of evil" will be the day when they are cast into the Lake of Fire.

But the Bible tells us that God does not DESIRE the damnation of the wicked. They choose their wickedness and therefore choose eternal Hell.

Amen....no matter how they slice and dice. The following verses prove Calvinist dogma to be false.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Combined with the lack of excuse due to creation and the invisible TESTIFYING TO ALL MEN....IF the LOST WERE MADE FOR HELL as the CALVIN pushers say....NO NEED for them to be without excuse because their destiny was sealed and they had NO ABILITY to SEE so as to be WITHOUT EXCUSE.

And contrary to any and ALL EXPERIENCES, PETER MAKES IT CLEAR to believe the sure word of prophecy over every experience....The MANY have rejected the irrevocable CALL OF GOD which proves it is indeed restible!

 

[jackrosie]

Read all of John .The Vine and the Branches.

15:16


You did not choose me,but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit-fruit that will last.
Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
This is my command:Love each other.