Bible and Money: Why God Supports Free Market Capitalism

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#41
@Roughsoul1991
God wants the perfect middle way (as usual). I think God hates both capitalism and communism. I see neither in the Bible. Both have some good aspects, but as it is realized by men, both kill the opposite good principles. There is both strong individualism and strong collectivism in Christianity, neither should be realized to the detriment of one another.

Some examples: Have compassion on fellow man, strengthen the poor, yet the Bible also says who does not work will not eat and rebukes leeching because sometimes giving is enabling irresponsibility. Everyone gets wages for his work, everyone dies for their sins, what you sow you also reap. But also we are told to share, because we also received what we didn't work for, Jesus did entirely. Build up resources for the old age, yet do not pile up riches (Proverbs), etc.
I believe the argument could be made to support capitalism from a Biblical perspective. There are also books that go in greater detail. But the Bible speaks to all parts of life and once you focus on one area, you will be surprised what the Bible has to offer on it.

But this is also within context how the Bible tells the individual, the church, and government to behave.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#42
does it?

The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine;
for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.
(Leviticus 25:23)
Deuteronomy 5:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

God also allowed people to inherit the land. And taxes prevent people from forever owning land.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#43
I believe the argument could be made to support capitalism from a Biblical perspective. There are also books that go in greater detail. But the Bible speaks to all parts of life and once you focus on one area, you will be surprised what the Bible has to offer on it.

But this is also within context how the Bible tells the individual, the church, and government to behave.
Acts 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

I still firmly stand by my belief that the Bible advocates neither side, but instead all things in balance for good purpose. The Bible isn't capitalist nor communist, these are both man made systems.

"Capitalism" of today is very far from the original capitalism, working people and children 20 hours a day during the industrial evolution. How did communism appear? Communism was wrapped to sell to workers, if they were so happy why did they switch to communism. The whole Marxist agenda was wrapped about why there was such disparity of wealth among people, and this is why people bought into it, because they wanted more equality and more rights. Then communism went off into the left field with their own agendas and also didn't work out for these peoples. Neither of these are of God. What you call capitalism is very far from what genuine capitalism actually is and was, what we have today is - thank God - a lot closer to middle ground because nowadays workers have a lot more rights and pay than they used to have and than bosses wanted (or want) to give them. The real spirit of capitalism today is evidenced through companies outsourcing, running sweat shops unscrupulously, just to line their pockets as much as they can find loopholes in the law, and destroying their own economies in the process.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
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#44
Deuteronomy 5:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

God also allowed people to inherit the land. And taxes prevent people from forever owning land.
do you think this contradicts & overrules the fact that God said all the land is His? that all the cattle are His? that all the gold and silver is His?

that's how you're using it, right?
as though the fact God may use language like "your land" means it is not truly His?


He says we are sojourners with Him. He assigns us a place. even in heaven, it is in "My Father's house" that there are many rooms. it's not going to be "your" mansion, with any sense of ownership. "yours" only as in He gives it to you to use. as a guest. you have been granted a responsibility of stewardship over His things that He lends you.

You are not your own
(1 Corinthians 6:9)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
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#45
taxes prevent people from forever owning land.
why are you upset about property taxes?

is the silver and gold yours?
is the land yours?


The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof;
the world, and they that dwell therein

(Psalm 24:1)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#46
The Bible isn't capitalist nor communist, these are both man made systems.
"Free enterprise" would be the correct term. The Bible does promote free enterprise, land ownership, property ownership, business ownership, payment of taxes, etc.

Capitalism is not exactly the same as free enterprise. It is more akin to "The concentration or massing of capital in the hands of a few; also, the power or influence of large or combined capital."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
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#47
we ain't gonna' be buying and selling in glory.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#48
Jesus and the 12 was not a government.
and that means what exactly, their way was right or wrong?

Capitalism at the purest form?
that means no rules, just let the system run its course freely.

Sounds subjective to opinion.
this opinion is shared by every teacher, professor and textbook in the country as well as historical facts

Labor laws involves morality but not the system itself. US is still majority a freeish market ran by capital. But yet labor laws changed.
labor laws are not part of the free market, thats regulation, again with that dirty word.

You can take your communism back to China.
under communism the people own the factory, show me one factory in china thats owned by the people. good luck on that one. chinese economy is communism in name and capitalist in substance.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
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#49
do you think this contradicts & overrules the fact that God said all the land is His? that all the cattle are His? that all the gold and silver is His?

that's how you're using it, right?
as though the fact God may use language like "your land" means it is not truly His?


He says we are sojourners with Him. He assigns us a place. even in heaven, it is in "My Father's house" that there are many rooms. it's not going to be "your" mansion, with any sense of ownership. "yours" only as in He gives it to you to use. as a guest. you have been granted a responsibility of stewardship over His things that He lends you.

You are not your own
(1 Corinthians 6:9)
What of it? If God created the boundaries where people will be and gives land as an inheritance. You are correct all is His. We are only borrowing it or as Genesis states we are managing it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
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#50
why are you upset about property taxes?

is the silver and gold yours?
is the land yours?



The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof;
the world, and they that dwell therein
(Psalm 24:1)
I didn't say one way or another. You posted a verse that says land to not to be sold permanently. And it isn't.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#52
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 ESV
“At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.

these are social programs commanded by the Most High, but i thought the Father was a capitalist, not a socialist?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
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#53
and that means what exactly, their way was right or wrong?


that means no rules, just let the system run its course freely.


this opinion is shared by every teacher, professor and textbook in the country as well as historical facts


labor laws are not part of the free market, thats regulation, again with that dirty word.

under communism the people own the factory, show me one factory in china thats owned by the people. good luck on that one. chinese economy is communism in name and capitalist in substance.
and that means what exactly, their way was right or wrong?
Meaning it isn't an example for the government. Nor was it commanded by Jesus or early church. It was group agreement and that changed as they spread out and grew as history portrays.

that means no rules, just let the system run its course freely.
Nope. Limited government involvement to control fairness, equal opportunity, and to encourage competition as our textbook civics class explained.

this opinion is shared by every teacher, professor and textbook in the country as well as historical facts
Every? That is a big word. No, every source does not promote your belief. Maybe the anti-western civilization types which are many liberal colleges.

labor laws are not part of the free market, thats regulation, again with that dirty word.
Yah as to why your quote about labor for 16 hours was pointless and no connection to the textbook design of a free market capitalist economy.

under communism the people own the factory, show me one factory in china thats owned by the people. good luck on that one. chinese economy is communism in name and capitalist in substance.
Hahaha. Wow. Maybe you should read up on how communism was created and the steps it needs to take to get to their utopian dream. China and Russia are straight up out of the communist manifesto. China is majority government-controlled including the economy which is the opposite of a free market based around capital earned by the liberty of investors, entrepreneurs, and inventors.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#54
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 ESV
“At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.

these are social programs commanded by the Most High, but i thought the Father was a capitalist, not a socialist?
A tithe which is not the abundance. Abundance is made in order for parts of the produce to be given. Out of capitalism is the only way any social program can prosper. Plus socialism is the equalization of economics and a tithe is not that. 10% every 3 years is not equal vs 90%.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#55
Acts 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

I still firmly stand by my belief that the Bible advocates neither side, but instead all things in balance for good purpose. The Bible isn't capitalist nor communist, these are both man made systems.

"Capitalism" of today is very far from the original capitalism, working people and children 20 hours a day during the industrial evolution. How did communism appear? Communism was wrapped to sell to workers, if they were so happy why did they switch to communism. The whole Marxist agenda was wrapped about why there was such disparity of wealth among people, and this is why people bought into it, because they wanted more equality and more rights. Then communism went off into the left field with their own agendas and also didn't work out for these peoples. Neither of these are of God. What you call capitalism is very far from what genuine capitalism actually is and was, what we have today is - thank God - a lot closer to middle ground because nowadays workers have a lot more rights and pay than they used to have and than bosses wanted (or want) to give them. The real spirit of capitalism today is evidenced through companies outsourcing, running sweat shops unscrupulously, just to line their pockets as much as they can find loopholes in the law, and destroying their own economies in the process.
Acts 2:45 was a church freely cooperation as seen with Ananias and Sapphira. They wasn't commanded but chose to give except they tried to cheat God.

This wasn't a government operation and it also wasn't sustained as the church grew.

The Bible isn't capitalist nor communist, these are both man made systems.
God has inspired man's direction in the realm of morality. If a system is good then God inspired it. If it is bad then God will hate it and it will likely be self evident in it's outcome. But just as you will not find the Trinity in Scripture we see the Trinity throughout Scripture. Just as why I made the case for capitalism. If you study it by looking in Scripture you will see why it is important within what the Bible calls good government.

Capitalism" of today is very far from the original capitalism, working people and children 20 hours a day during the industrial evolution.
Was that the original capitalism? Capitalism has been around much longer as it dates back to the days of trade and barter systems that eventually led into merchant capitalism as societies evolved so did trade and economics. The philosophy vs operation is different. In philosophy or in theory it works this way but action must fit the theory. Poor worker conditions had nothing to do with the philosophy of capitalism but more with the morality of the individuals who took advantage of it. You will have morality problems with any system for example in socialism you will have free loaders and worker clashes.

Also capitalism involves limited government involvement as in they in theory are suppose to create a economic environment that promotes equality, promotes opportunity, competition, and uphold the law to prevent corruption.

We have economic theories just as Marxism even though that is incorporated in more of a athiestic worldview just like sharia law is not separate of the Islamic worldview.

In theory capitalism is right for morality.

Morality being a pillar to uphold what is just.

John Adams, The Works of John Adams,
Second President of the United States
, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston:
Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.)

We have no government armed with power capable of contending
with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution
was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
government of any other.

No economic system will ever be without flaws especially without a good moral foundation.

I agree as we grow secular, more will abuse the liberty of capitalism. And the more secular government becomes, the more corrupt and more control they will seek to have.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
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#57
That is true in Heaven, but there will be righteous buying and selling on earth (or so it would appear).
yes, so it does appear

So the Master commended the unjust steward because he had dealt shrewdly, for the sons of this world are more shrewd in their generation than the sons of light.
And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own?
No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
(Luke 16:8-13)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#58
Plus socialism is the equalization of economics...
That is only IN THEORY. Here is how Socialism works.

COMMUNIST BOSSES------> 99% OF THE COUNTRY'S WEALTH

THE REST OF THE PEOPLE-------> 1% OF THE COUNTRY'S WEALTH

Out of that 99% probably 80% goes towards building up a military.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#59
That is only IN THEORY. Here is how Socialism works.

COMMUNIST BOSSES------> 99% OF THE COUNTRY'S WEALTH

THE REST OF THE PEOPLE-------> 1% OF THE COUNTRY'S WEALTH

Out of that 99% probably 80% goes towards building up a military.
You are equally poor but the human heart and the 1% who owns the 99% of the wealth, without checks and balances lead to the 1% ruling the 99% of the population. Then when people get tired of starving, poor healthcare, and poor living conditions they begin to revolt. The revolt needs an authoritarian to keep it in order. Then within a very short time period, true socialism becomes Communism.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
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#60
You are equally poor but the human heart and the 1% who owns the 99% of the wealth, without checks and balances lead to the 1% ruling the 99% of the population. Then when people get tired of starving, poor healthcare, and poor living conditions they begin to revolt.
this sure sounds exactly like the current state of our capitalist economy.