Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Well it either is...... or it isn't my personal opinion is people get offended if you differ from what they want to teach and then the whole thing blows up into one big whoeha......

And this is my view too. They can not stand to be countered in any way so it turns into a free for all

 

[mailmandan]

I thought so! But I do see you also make an exception to that rule by how you believe Hebrews 10:26-29. If You accept the way that individual interpreted those scriptures, you believe if you continue deliberately in sin you will lose your Salvation.

Did you thoroughly read through post #19 from my link?

 

[biker]

Did you thoroughly read through post #19 from my link?

English actually makes this not sound so bad so we are able to falsey translate it. But the Greek is direct to the point. Paul wrote this in the GREEK, I am sure he had a purpose for it!

I did, but it does not change the Greek Meaning 1 bit!

Ἑκουσίως γὰρ ἁμαρτανόντων ἡμῶν μετὰ τὸ λαβεῖν τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τῆς ἀληθείας, οὐκέτι περὶ ἁμαρτιῶν ἀπολείπεται θυσία, φοβερὰ δέ τις ἐκδοχὴ κρίσεως καὶ πυρὸς ζῆλος ἐσθίειν μέλλοντος τοὺς ὑπεναντίους.

26 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins, 27 but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile."

 

[mailmandan]

Mailman,

From your own post description you added yourself:

Hebrews 10:26 (AMPC) - For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. Such people are rejecting Christ deliberately.

You said, even those who accepted Christ, but chose to remain in their deliberate sin, HAVE NO SACRIFICE!

This means they accepted Christ, are saved, but because they deliberately remain in their sin, they lose the value of what Christ did for atonement.

So then, in this ONE EXCEPTION, the OSAS does not apply!

And that is all I have been trying to bring to light.

Only those who believe to the saving have accepted Christ and are saved and not those who instead draw back to perdition (Hebrews 10:39) by willfully sinning/deliberately rejecting Christ after acquiring the knowledge of the truth.

 

[star]

That’s because I think about my arguments as well as yours. You guys just repeat what someone else said who also never thought about it. You cannot catch me in your loaded questions and I consider many angles of all questions. So thinking about the subject is foreign to many of you. It’s not foreign to me and I have questioned my own thoughts for decades and so eliminated a lot of falsehood.

Your posts are so shallow. Your words are false. Your words place you on a false pedestal. Your words of arrogance exceeds all limitations

 

[star]

To make my position on this site clear, I will refute what is posted falsely against the Word of God. One can call that mud slinging, whatever. God's Word will stand as is but His Words must never be used for falsehoods.

 

[PennEd]

No they did not trust in works in your name Lord we did this and that... seems like they were pretty good Christians to me

Jesus flat out told the “I NEVER knew you”

Not that He knew them at one time and they did or didn’t do something for Him to not know them now. Can you not see that?

 

[EleventhHour]

Once you have experienced being taught The Word by The Holy Spirit, you just NEVER want to know anything unless The Holy Spirit teaches you.

He is The Spirit of Truth, in Him is no lie.


But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 2:27&version=KJV

Because of the anointing of the Holy Spirit given to all believers, they possess the resources for knowing the truth.

This is not to saying that teachers are unnecessary, because one of the resources for knowing the truth is the reminder given by teachers like John.

John is in fact teaching.

“about those who are trying to deceive you”. Verse 26

It is contrast to these deceivers that John writes verse 27. His point, then, is that they already have what they need.

So, when John says they do not need anyone to teach them the “anyone” is speaking of those giving new truths.

He is referring to a specific group of false teachers.

Teachers of the Gospel lead to deeper understanding... not new truth.

 

[mailmandan]

Only those who believe to the saving of the soul have accepted Christ and are saved and not those who instead draw back to perdition (Hebrews 10:39) by willfully sinning/deliberately rejecting Christ after acquiring the knowledge of the truth.

Would like to add, those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition and those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[star]

BTW, I do not "claim" to be a Christian. I am. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. He has given me the gift of eternal life and I a sinner am so thankful. All glory and honor and praise goes to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[PennEd]

Ok.i
Cool, yet nothing in my post was bringing an argument to the forefront concerning the "L."

The issue at the forefront now is the individual in this thread falsely accusing others and using slander, lying, childish name calling, ridicule and mockery in doing so namely @eternally-gratefull. Even one of our newest members @Fastfredy0 has been introduced to it. The fact is he's projecting. I realize your post is an attempt for unity, but there will be no unity as long as he continues his behavior and remains defiant and unrepentant even when shown proof of his actions. This isn't something new either, EG has been doing this for years. However I do respect your attempt to bring healing, but that won't come as long as the unrepentant behavior continues.

Now back to your post. The glass isn't dark on understanding and seeing limited atonement in NT scripture. It is the same concerning predestination. The only thing making it difficult to see for some is their tradition. It is plainly spoken of:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/limited-atonement/

I think you’ve missed the primary point of my post.

While eternal security is certainly fundamental to the Gospel, limited atonement and predestination is absolutely not essential to the Gospel, and, whether right or wrong, only serves to cause strife.

You are not suggesting that a person needs to believe in those doctrines to be saved are you?

 

[Fastfredy0]

This is getting very tiresome ... did you guys coordinate this ongoing character assassination?

Short answer: NO, as least not on my part.

Longer answer:
I tried giving EG the benefit of the doubt. @preacher4truth and @Sackcloth-N-Ashes said EG kept calling them liars. Then low and behold EG calls me a liar. It let is go. Then EG calls me a liar a second time. I'm not Columbo, but seems to be a pattern here.

You have your CAUSE and EFFECT mixed up IMO.

The CAUSE is EG calling people liars
The EFFECT is calling EG out on it
The common denominator is EG calling liars people who disagree with EG
Further circumstantial proof: We disagree with you as much as EG. We treat you civilly and I am thankful you are civil.

So, if I have the CAUSE and EFFECT correct, then EFFECT (us called him out un-Christian like behaviour) would stop when the CAUSE (EG calling us liars) stops. (Aside: The is an example of the Reformed concept of 'first' and 'second causes'. The 'first cause' is God permitting EG to call us liars. The 'second cause' is for EG to call us liars. Another 'second cause' is for us to respond to EG. I don't know why God has ordained the 'first cause' but He ordains all things. .... Now from EG's point of view I assume (now don't call me a liar EG, I said I ASSUME to be correct if I am wrong but not be calling me a liar ... on second thought, let's not use EG. Let's call him Jack. Jack see this episode as EG being the 'first cause' and his free will being the director of the cause. Jack doesn't understand that the source of any first cause must be eternal as Nothing comes from Nothing, but that is a story for another day)

Aside: We have a 5 year plan to bring you over to the dark (Reformed) side

 

[stonesoffire]

His Son is the groom so this is a moot point, we are the bride....

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, form a single body, so it is with the Messiah.


1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us—Jews and Greeks, slaves and free—were baptized into one body and were all privileged to drink from one Spirit.


1Co 12:14 For the body does not consist of only one part, but of many.



Yes, we will be the Bride at the wedding supper.


The churches have failed us to teach the things of the One body of Christ on the earth. The result of teaching only the new birth for salvation, and not the power of the Holy Ghost!

Am wondering if this virus keeping churches closed..........

 

[EleventhHour]

Short answer: NO, as least not on my part.

Longer answer:
I tried giving EG the benefit of the doubt. @preacher4truth and @Sackcloth-N-Ashes said EG kept calling them liars. Then low and behold EG calls me a liar. It let is go. Then EG calls me a liar a second time. I'm not Columbo, but seems to be a pattern here.

You have your CAUSE and EFFECT mixed up IMO.

The CAUSE is EG calling people liars
The EFFECT is calling EG out on it
The common denominator is EG calling liars people who disagree with EG
Further circumstantial proof: We disagree with you as much as EG. We treat you civilly and I am thankful you are civil.

So, if I have the CAUSE and EFFECT correct, then EFFECT (us called him out un-Christian like behaviour) would stop when the CAUSE (EG calling us liars) stops. (Aside: The is an example of the Reformed concept of 'first' and 'second causes'. The 'first cause' is God permitting EG to call us liars. The 'second cause' is for EG to call us liars. Another 'second cause' is for us to respond to EG. I don't know why God has ordained the 'first cause' but He ordains all things. .... Now from EG's point of view I assume (now don't call me a liar EG, I said I ASSUME to be correct if I am wrong but not be calling me a liar ... on second thought, let's not use EG. Let's call him Jack. Jack see this episode as EG being the 'first cause' and his free will being the director of the cause. Jack doesn't understand that the source of any first cause must be eternal as Nothing comes from Nothing, but that is a story for another day)

Aside: We have a 5 year plan to bring you over to the dark (Reformed) side

I see only one recent post where he used the term lies... so I am not sure what you are referring to.

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4302905

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Jesus flat out told the “I NEVER knew you”

Not that He knew them at one time and they did or didn’t do something for Him to not know them now. Can you not see that?

I can definitely see it but the verse doesn't end there does it? Can you see that Jesus said that the reason He never knew them was because they were lawless (violating the Torah/law)?

Their inequity was that they were without law. What will our inequity be then? I don't see Jews claiming to heal the sick in the name of Jesus. He is not talking to the Jews, he is talking to you and me...

God bless brother.

 

[stonesoffire]

EH there are times when people on this site are not acting very Christian-like, but there should not be a witch-hunt on one person. We are all guilty at times

I do agree. We should be able to freely speak, truth or error, without being “rocked“ by condemning words.

But, only the love that the Lord exhibited to us individually will continue on through us to others, either in affirming, or correction, will be the answer to this problem.

This is all across the board, not just on this thread.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just because I disagree on certain things doesn't make me like people less. I have had words with EG and DC but both parties keep it civil, and if we don't we hug it out later . When all is said and done we are one body, one bride, one church.

God bless

Yep because we are humble enough to agree to disagree

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Get over it for crying out loud.

Lol
it keeps the focus off him

 

[stonesoffire]

No they did not trust in works in your name Lord we did this and that... seems like they were pretty good Christians to me

Gandolf,

the works of God are only done by Holy Spirit moving through us.

 

[EleventhHour]

EH there are times when people on this site are not acting very Christian-like, but there should not be a witch-hunt on one person. We are all guilty at times

Is it "Christ like" to teach false doctrine?

Doctrine that is central to the Gospel?