Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah, the benefit of the doubt is almost over. EG called me (or at least insinuated the 2nd time) a liar twice now.

Aside: Callow people make derogatory statements about the person rather than the idea. (Note: this is a general comment and not at this time about an specific person)

Really you want to go there?

and you say this is not derogatory

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

This is now a mud slinging contest.... oh brother .

Both sides need to take a deep breath and move forward in a civil manner.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good day sir

1. nothing my my post insists that a person was chosen by their own power of comming to faith,
2. the argument that was being “proven” by this so called quote was that god chose me based on the fact I CHOSE him, nothing in that post said I chose god, saying “I chose god” and saying ” I have faith in God“ is two different things, and to say otherwise is dishonest, this is where bearing false witness comes in

not only was the argument, on that fact basis that I said “I chose God and that is why God chose me” it is also stated that I am MERITING my salvation because of faith and this is the remark used to prove it.
if this is the argument, it MUST be assumed I came to faith on my own power with no direction or help from God, how else could I merit salvation? And I never stated such a thing.

it is the tactic of those who are no defending to play this game, that’s why I had them on ignore to begin with and now am going to ignore whatever they say unless they start their lies and inflammatory posts again,

if you feel offended because I am sick of being told I insinuated something I did not, I can not help it

if you feel justified of declaring I merit my salvation because I made a statement that I never made, then I can not help that

put yourself in my Shoes.

if you catch me saying something and I deny it, yet it is proven I did say it, I will gladly and openly confess it, I think I proved that many times on here.

but when others continually insist that I made a claim i never made. Well

and by the way, if you think I am just using this as an excuse and it was not the argument,I will prove it to you







there is a lot more where ths comes from.

can you show me where in the post you just claimed I said whatbi was accused of saying says I CHOSE GOD? Because I can not see it,

I see that I said God chose people who would eventually come to faith in him and based on that fact, not that they chose God, that they TRUSTED GOD, yu claim you trusted God did you not? Did you merit salvation because god drew you, thought you, convicted you and led you?
let’s get real, these things must stop, I personally am sick of these things that draw away from the purpose of this thread,

This is what happens when one comes into the middle of an argument, you End up not knowing what the argument is about, and end up mistakingly think you understand it, then make a mistake like this because you did not understand the argument to begin with.

 

[EleventhHour]

This is what happens when one comes into the middle of an argument, you End up not knowing what the argument is about, and end up mistakingly think you understand it, then make a mistake like this because you did not understand the argument to begin with.

The Holy Spirit enables but does not force and no matter how they want to go after you they are still wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is now a mud slinging contest.... oh brother .

Both sides need to take a deep breath and move forward in a civil manner.

Lol what is sad is we are on same side. The side of grace as apposed to works

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is even sadder is how close we really are
1. we both believe in justification by faith
2. We both believe we did not come to god God came to us
3. We both believe it was the work of god that we believe in the one he sent
4 we both believe in perseverance of saints osas eternal security whatever you want to call it

Our difference is I believe man has a choice and that choice determines their eternity As Jesus said he who believe has life he who does Not believe shall not see life and that God dies for all
Men
They believe man has no choice and that if god regenerates then they have no choice but will believe. If not then that have no choice they will
Never believe and have no hope of salvation
it’s sad all the fight over a disagreement in how we got there. And is also why I call
Them (well
Most of them) my brother or sister)

 

[EleventhHour]

What is even sadder is how close we really are
1. we both believe in justification by faith
2. We both believe we did not come to god God came to us
3. We both believe it was the work of god that we believe in the one he sent
4 we both believe in perseverance of saints osas eternal security whatever you want to call it

Our difference is I believe man has a choice and that choice determines their eternity As Jesus said he who believe has life he who does Not believe shall not see life and that God dies for all
Men
They believe man has no choice and that if god regenerates then they have no choice but will believe. If not then that have no choice they will
Never believe and have no hope of salvation

It is personal it is not about the doctrine.

 

[mailmandan]

I started to read MDan, but came to the word willfull right off the bat so to speak... In scripture it’s wilful, So I looked to see the difference.

Now does this then make a difference? In my thinking it does.

The present tense indicates this is their lifestyle, their habitual practice. It describes a continual state of willful, deliberate sinning. Hebrews 10:26 (AMPC) - For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. Such people are rejecting Christ deliberately. In contrast, in 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[mailmandan]

So, you are not OSAS?

It should be very obvious from my posts that I believe in eternal security of the believer/preservation of the saints.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is personal it is not about the doctrine.

well yes, in the case of a group of people.

But my point still stands. Its sad..

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

There are many people that will come across as brash on here but it is not personal they way people interpret it.

It is personal it is not about the doctrine.

Well it either is...... or it isn't my personal opinion is people get offended if you differ from what they want to teach and then the whole thing blows up into one big whoeha......

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Just because I disagree on certain things doesn't make me like people less. I have had words with EG and DC but both parties keep it civil, and if we don't we hug it out later . When all is said and done we are one body, one bride, one church.

God bless

 

[EleventhHour]

Well it either is...... or it isn't my personal opinion is people get offended if you differ from what they want to teach and then the whole thing blows up into one big whoeha......

There is only one truth.

 

[fredoheaven]

When I believe Christ for my salvation is not to merit it and yet faith works. It is though faith we are saved. When I don't believed Christ for salvation then one need is to merit it and faith doesn't work. We know it, faith comes by the hearing of the word of God and only those who believed Christ for salvation can truly say " I am what I am by the Grace of God"

 

[preacher4truth]

Ok.i

I have come to believe that it’s ok to say “I don’t know” on certain issues.
limited atonement and certainly predestination, even though I lean heavily in the sovereignty of God over man, are issues that we can say qualify as “seeing through a glass darkly”.

What most here have in common is much greater than what divides us.

Most here believe the following.

Jesus Christ is God in human flesh.
Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.
Jesus rose from the grave on the third day.
Those that trust in Him, and are born again, are forever His.
Jesus Christ will come again to judge the living (His children) and the dead (unsaved).

So my point is we shouldn’t be divisive to one another over doctrines that don’t impact the Gospel.

And I am by no means singling you out. I have had more than my share of fairly contentious doctrinal arguments.

But it’s the Gospel, and any attempt to alter it in any way, that we need to unite around and not let get perverted. Be blessed brother.

Cool, yet nothing in my post was bringing an argument to the forefront concerning the "L."

The issue at the forefront now is the individual in this thread falsely accusing others and using slander, lying, childish name calling, ridicule and mockery in doing so namely @eternally-gratefull. Even one of our newest members @Fastfredy0 has been introduced to it. The fact is he's projecting. I realize your post is an attempt for unity, but there will be no unity as long as he continues his behavior and remains defiant and unrepentant even when shown proof of his actions. This isn't something new either, EG has been doing this for years. However I do respect your attempt to bring healing, but that won't come as long as the unrepentant behavior continues.

Now back to your post. The glass isn't dark on understanding and seeing limited atonement in NT scripture. It is the same concerning predestination. The only thing making it difficult to see for some is their tradition. It is plainly spoken of:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/limited-atonement/

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Good day sir

1. nothing my my post insists that a person was chosen by their own power of comming to faith,
2. the argument that was being “proven” by this so called quote was that god chose me based on the fact I CHOSE him, nothing in that post said I chose god, saying “I chose god” and saying ” I have faith in God“ is two different things, and to say otherwise is dishonest, this is where bearing false witness comes in

not only was the argument, on that fact basis that I said “I chose God and that is why God chose me” it is also stated that I am MERITING my salvation because of faith and this is the remark used to prove it.
if this is the argument, it MUST be assumed I came to faith on my own power with no direction or help from God, how else could I merit salvation? And I never stated such a thing.

it is the tactic of those who are no defending to play this game, that’s why I had them on ignore to begin with and now am going to ignore whatever they say unless they start their lies and inflammatory posts again,

if you feel offended because I am sick of being told I insinuated something I did not, I can not help it

if you feel justified of declaring I merit my salvation because I made a statement that I never made, then I can not help that

put yourself in my Shoes.

if you catch me saying something and I deny it, yet it is proven I did say it, I will gladly and openly confess it, I think I proved that many times on here.

but when others continually insist that I made a claim i never made. Well

and by the way, if you think I am just using this as an excuse and it was not the argument,I will prove it to you







there is a lot more where ths comes from.

can you show me where in the post you just claimed I said whatbi was accused of saying says I CHOSE GOD? Because I can not see it,

I see that I said God chose people who would eventually come to faith in him and based on that fact, not that they chose God, that they TRUSTED GOD, yu claim you trusted God did you not? Did you merit salvation because god drew you, thought you, convicted you and led you?
let’s get real, these things must stop, I personally am sick of these things that draw away from the purpose of this thread,

***Sigh***

Keep it up.

I will go by what the bible says

He chose ME before the foundaion of the world. To be holy and blameless.

He knew me, and then he predestined me to be conformed to the image of God

He knew me, and because he knew me he predestined me, and because he predestined me, he chose me, and because he chose me, he justified me, and because he justified me he WILL glorify me

He predestined me to be adopted as his child

I have obtained an inheritance having been predestined.
You go by whatever you think it says, I will stick wiht the word.

Ps. Knowing OF ME, (knowing who I am and what I would do in the future which is the cause of my predestination or chosing) and knowing me personally (after I am saved( are two different things, But nice try.

Here’s the link to that very post @Fastfredy0 if you don’t believe me.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-or-free-wiil.179821/page-12#post-3732801


He‘s teaching God chose him based off what He knew he’d do. That’s a meritorious grace. And that’s not grace at all, but merit. The very antithesis of grace.

 

[Duskey]

Loss of salvation not in view.

What you have a acquired is very simplified reading of that entire passage, you give no consideration to the written expressive style and extensive knowledge of the writer of Hebrews.

For God so loved the world He gave His own Son, that whoever believes in Him AND REMAINS PERFECT shall not perish but have eternal life.

Nope, my Bible doesn’t say that either.

 

[Duskey]

Ok.i
Cool, yet nothing in my post was bringing an argument to the forefront concerning the "L."

The issue at the forefront now is the individual in this thread falsely accusing others and using slander, lying, childish name calling, ridicule and mockery in doing so namely @eternally-gratefull. Even one of our newest members @Fastfredy0 has been introduced to it. The fact is he's projecting. I realize your post is an attempt for unity, but there will be no unity as long as he continues his behavior and remains defiant and unrepentant even when shown proof of his actions. This isn't something new either, EG has been doing this for years. However I do respect your attempt to bring healing, but that won't come as long as the unrepentant behavior continues.

Now back to your post. The glass isn't dark on understanding and seeing limited atonement in NT scripture. It is the same concerning predestination. The only thing making it difficult to see for some is their tradition. It is plainly spoken of:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/limited-atonement/

Get over it for crying out loud.

 

[biker]

It should be very obvious from my posts that I believe in eternal security of the believer/preservation of the saints.

I thought so! But I do see you also make an exception to that rule by how you believe Hebrews 10:26-29. If You accept the way that individual interpreted those scriptures, you believe if you continue deliberately in sin you will lose your Salvation.

 

[biker]

I thought so! But I do see you also make an exception to that rule by how you believe Hebrews 10:26-29. If You accept the way that individual interpreted those scriptures, you believe if you continue deliberately in sin you will lose your Salvation.

Mailman,

From your own post description you added yourself:

Hebrews 10:26 (AMPC) - For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. Such people are rejecting Christ deliberately.

You said, even those who accepted Christ, but chose to remain in their deliberate sin, HAVE NO SACRIFICE!

This means they accepted Christ, are saved, but because they deliberately remain in their sin, they lose the value of what Christ did for atonement.

So then, in this ONE EXCEPTION, the OSAS does not apply!

And that is all I have been trying to bring to light.