Not By Works

[Fastfredy0]

This is why it is absurd watching them go after those who deny the "eternal security" of the believer, accusing them of being saved by works, when they believe they merited it by an action themselves. This is the error of conditional election which is nothing less than merited salvation.

Agreed. The logic is simple, yet is somehow it escapes them.

I must do "X" to receive reward "Y" and those who don't do "X" don't get the reward "Y". Yet this is not MERIT somehow. LOGIC 101, dictionary 101.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

AMEN!

Some of us don't act like it is a Gift, but that it is owed. This is what I am talking about.

The only people I see who act like it is owed are those trying to earn it by their works. And amen, that is I. Extreme error

 

[stonesoffire]

Look at David.

1 night with Bathsheba immediately led to murdering her husband, losing the baby, and having the prophet tell you are wrong.
Then later on, his children are murdered. His son sleeps with his concubines before all of Israel.

We are talking 1 sin and 25 years of heartache.

So, even if we have Grace, and we choose to sin, our sins find us. Somewhere in life we suffer over it.

So, how is it we suffer from sins, but we think we are saved by Grace from them?

Delusion is how.

And YES, Rebellion is the same as Witchcraft!

The result wirh David is the same with us. Repentance. God calls David a man after His own heart. A man who can agree with Paul, and with Jesus.....there is nothing good in man but God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed. The logic is simple, yet is somehow it escapes them.

I must do "X" to receive reward "Y" and those who don't do "X" don't get the reward "Y". Yet this is not MERIT somehow. LOGIC 101, dictionary 101.

Do tell
do tell how a person who is drownimg told they can in lack of faith they can continue to struggle and try to save themselves and the rescuer will allow to, or they can stop,trying to save themselves and allow the rescuer to do all the work. How they merited salvation by stopping the attempt to save self and completely trusted the rescuer to save them?

can you explain this to me?

once again as always your so called charts or whatever they are, do not cover all bases.

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Amen. Only the OSAS overcomers are doing the works. Those who are drinking draughts of living water from the bottomless well of Grace and power, those who abide those who persevere, all of this through a living faith, all in the Name of Jesus, all of which is a gift and work of God.

For those who do their own works in their own name for their own glory:

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have wenot prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

"For those who do their own works in their own name for their own glory:"


I'm not sure anyone who disagrees with the topic here has ever claimed such a thing.


this part sounds good though:


"overcomers are doing the works. Those who are drinking draughts of living water from the bottomless well of Grace and power, those who abide those who persevere, all of this through a living faith, all in the Name of Jesus,"


just about right actually. 💎 if this is indeed what you do then you are becoming more and more Christ-like (to the degree that you are) , thus fufilling the Law, (hopefully more and more) i.e. keeping The Commandments (to whatever degree that you are). 👣 👣

 

[biker]

The only people I see who act like it is owed are those trying to earn it by their works. And amen, that is I. Extreme error

To just Believe is an act one has to make in Faith. After that, it is to continue to keep on Believing. In a sense, from how the Greek is defined, to keep Believing is an act of effort. Grace is awarded to those "who" keep the Faith! I am not going to get into the intimate details here, but to simply believe and to continue believing is a works.

 

[stonesoffire]

In the Hebrew there is a word that means MERCIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS endless s here.

When God went to the Cross, He had Mercy for the Jews and Grace for the Gentiles.

It's why I stated, once Grace stops being a Gift (because we are Grateful), and Grace becomes I am saved no matter what, we have legalized Grace and it no longers becomes a Gift!

1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

5 scriptures in the NT stating that the body of Christ has all three. Here is the key biker. The body. Members of Jesus, Messiah Saviour of all mankind, yet man must receive His redemption freely. Freely He gives! In Him. Have you seen the Greek for in? A fixed position. Where? In Him.

where can we go from His presence? Psalms..

When we fully look into His face....understanding Him is to know His love....there’s no other place that satisfies.

He brings us to this place for He is the Shepherd of our soul.

 

[VCO]

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

do you believe in glorifying God with your body as this says?

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life .


do you believe in living your life for God - by His power (the Spirit), in taking on the mind of Christ daily - as your own?


surely you do not believe in living Without Christ do you? on your own power, all alone, without His life In You? if we are to live in Christ (by His Life - in Us) then we must ALLOW the Spirit to work in us AND choose the good that it shows us (tells us) day by day to do. we cannot do Nothing (No Work).

nature even shows us plainly all the time that there MUST BE WORK DONE. if you don't work any your life will fall apart eventually. so too with the Spirit.

you will not grow at least if you do not stay in the Spirit or at least keep coming back to it, seek spiritual things daily or often, think good things daily or as often as you can, choose good helpful things daily (or often). these are all Forms of Doing Things my friend, i.e. - WORK.

I am 71 years old, and I gave HIM Complete Control of my life, the last week in 1977, after three attempts at suicide that week. HE has been running my life WAY better than I used to. I have seen HIM work many miracles in my life and my wife's life, so many I could not even count time. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, I think the Charismatic so-called Gifts, ARE COUNTERFEITS. You do not Know the foggiest thing about my life with CHRIST.

 

[preacher4truth]

Agreed. The logic is simple, yet is somehow it escapes them.

I must do "X" to receive reward "Y" and those who don't do "X" don't get the reward "Y". Yet this is not MERIT somehow. LOGIC 101, dictionary 101.

Them: "We're saved by our free will! God left it up to us!"

God: "Nope, what I said in John 1:13 refutes this. None are saved by the will of man."

Them? They're still arguing with God.

 

[stonesoffire]

To just Believe is an act one has to make in Faith. After that, it is to continue to keep on Believing. In a sense, from how the Greek is defined, to keep Believing is an act of effort. Grace is awarded to those "who" keep the Faith! I am not going to get into the intimate details here, but to simply believe and to continue believing is a works.

Well this is our work, yes! Believe! Jesus replied to the one who asked about this very thing.


Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[biker]

1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

5 scriptures in the NT stating that the body of Christ has all three. Here is the key biker. The body. Members of Jesus, Messiah Saviour of all mankind, yet man must receive His redemption freely. Freely He gives! In Him. Have you seen the Greek for in? A fixed position. Where? In Him.

where can we go from His presence? Psalms..

When we fully look into His face....understanding Him is to know His love....there’s no other place that satisfies.

He brings us to this place for He is the Shepherd of our soul.

Amen!

God is so Awesome!

 

[biker]

Well this is our work, yes! Believe! Jesus replied to the one who asked about this very thing.


Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You cannot have Grace until you first Believe. And to Believe is an act, which is a works!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To just Believe is an act one has to make in Faith. After that, it is to continue to keep on Believing. In a sense, from how the Greek is defined, to keep Believing is an act of effort. Grace is awarded to those "who" keep the Faith! I am not going to get into the intimate details here, but to simply believe and to continue believing is a works.

I disagree

mere belief never saved anyone, it takes true living faith, true faith never dies unless the one the faith is laced in becomes unfaithful

so unless you think God is untrustworthy you must admit, faith (true living) would never be lost

now, if you think we must in our own power continue to believe, then is that not meriting salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Them: "We're saved by our free will! God left it up to us!"

God: "Nope, what I said in John 1:13 refutes this. None are saved by the will of man."

Them? They're still arguing with God.

Nope

god did not leave it up to us

what he did is not force it on us, because he is a god of love

but you can not comprehend that, because you think your special. Thus god chose you over others

 

[biker]

I disagree

mere belief never saved anyone, it takes true living faith, true faith never dies unless the one the faith is laced in becomes unfaithful

so unless you think God is untrustworthy you must admit, faith (true living) would never be lost

now, if you think we must in our own power continue to believe, then is that not meriting salvation?

Just was using what Christ Himself said:



Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well this is our work, yes! Believe! Jesus replied to the one who asked about this very thing.


Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

"This is our work" huh?

That's funny, it's apparent Jesus said it's (belief) the work of God.

Then Peter said faith is obtained, 2 Peter 1:1. That literally means given by divine allotment.

And Paul said it comes from the word (not us) and from the power that raised Christ, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:19 respectively.

But you're saying it came from you, and is the work of man. So it IS of works according to you (and others) after all!

Hmmm. Wonder who's right?

 

[cv5]

In the Hebrew there is a word that means MERCIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS endless s here.

When God went to the Cross, He had Mercy for the Jews and Grace for the Gentiles.

It's why I stated, once Grace stops being a Gift (because we are Grateful), and Grace becomes I am saved no matter what, we have legalized Grace and it no longers becomes a Gift!

Rom 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Both of these terms are positional and legal in effect. This "peace" is not a feeling, an emotion a sense of well-being nothing like that. It means that the war between God and ourselves is over.

 

[biker]

"This is our work" huh?

That's funny, it's apparent Jesus said it's (belief) the work of God.

Then Peter said faith is obtained, 2 Peter 1:1. That literally means given by divine allotment.

And Paul said it comes from the word (not us) and from the power that raised Christ, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:19 respectively.

But you're saying it came from you, and is the work of man. So it IS of works according to you (and others) after all!

Hmmm. Wonder who's right?

Not everyone Believes. God's work is Christ. From there, we have to decide if we Believe in Him or not!

 

[VCO]

Agreed. The logic is simple, yet is somehow it escapes them.

I must do "X" to receive reward "Y" and those who don't do "X" don't get the reward "Y". Yet this is not MERIT somehow. LOGIC 101, dictionary 101.

Deeds are ONLY rewarded when it is done out of GENUINE AGAPE LOVE for them.

NOTICE THEY DID NOT EVEN KNOW that GOD WOULD REWARD THEM.

Matthew 25:31-46 (ESV)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


NOTICE, doing something to get a REWARD, is at the very least Wood, Hay, and Stubble; and at the worst it is FILTHY RAGS.
Only the motive of honestly loving that person with Agape love will be REWARDED.

 

[biker]

Rom 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Both of these terms are positional and legal in effect. This "peace" is not a feeling, an emotion a sense of well-being nothing like that. It means that the war between God and ourselves is over.

Does a NON-Believer have this justification?
Or someone who believes?