Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,624
113
I read what they write here as they volunteer their views. So far on this thread, and I was addressing this thread, who talks about pleasing God in what they do? Many think believing OSAS is pleasing God which means they don’t know what pleases Him even though He laid it out.
"believing in OSAS is pleasing to God"
It certainly is after all God invented it didn't He?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
I read what they write here as they volunteer their views. So far on this thread, and I was addressing this thread, who talks about pleasing God in what they do? Many think believing OSAS is pleasing God which means they don’t know what pleases Him even though He laid it out.
Once again ask the question.

You cannot make an assumption without asking.

If you assume then you judge.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,624
113
The Pharisees issue was with hypocrisy and iniquity.

I’m exhorting to truth and righteousness.

I don’t see the connection.

Wasn’t Paul a Pharisee?

I have the problem Paul had, gaining enemies by preaching the truth.
Your own truth and righteousness? After all you are completely sinless correct?

Move over Trinity! Micaiah-Imla would have words with you!
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
Your own truth and righteousness?
Of course not!

By the truth. There’s only one truth. It’s from God in his word. The Bible.

After righteousness was imputed to me, for the forgiveness of my sins when I first repented and believed, I now use my members as instruments of righteousness and am zealous of good works as a member of his peculiar people.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
You are pushing your "way of Cain" doctrine.
It’s interesting that your side brings up Cain a lot. Notice what God said to Cain:

Genesis 4:7
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

OSAS gives occasion for the sin that lies at the door to come in without restraint.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
if one thinks of themselves as 'sinless' for all of their lifetime' after 'conversion',
then i have to wonder how they value or think of our Saviour's Holy Sacrifice/Job/Office -
and why in the world would He be sitting on the throne next to our Father, 'having to intercede' for us',
when those of us who are convicted and brought to our knees in our repenting naturally go to Him???
for WHAT would we be 'repenting of' IF we were sinless??? = WHY is He there???
and for Jesus' sake, sitting right beside His Father,
if ALL was done and over with and forgotten/ done away with immediately after conversion??? = 'sinless forever more'???
anyone want to slap Him in the face, and think that you are already Holy, before you have even started your 'RACE'???
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
if one thinks of themselves as 'sinless' for all of their lifetime' after 'conversion',
then i have to wonder how they value or think of our Saviour's Holy Sacrifice/Job/Office -
and why in the world would He be sitting on the throne next to our Father, 'interceding' for us,
when those of us who are convicted and brought to our knees in our repenting???
I highly esteem Christ’s sacrifice. It is precious. Without it we’d still be in our sins.

I believe and live by the scripture.

Galatians 5:24
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Sin comes from lust. Sin eliminated.

Galatians 5:16
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Sin cannot manifest itself from a man walking in the Spirit. Sin eliminated.

But have you really been converted into the Spirit? Have you truly been born again? If you think sinlessness is a foolish pursuit, perhaps you’re the natural man described herein:

1 Corinthians 2:14
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,624
113
It’s interesting that your side brings up Cain a lot. Notice what God said to Cain:

Genesis 4:7
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

OSAS gives occasion for the sin that lies at the door to come in without restraint.
Only the OSAS are the overcomers. Sin does not reign over them. Jesus has prayed for us that our faith faileth not, therefore we have a bottomless well of grace to draw upon.

So you keep depending upon yourself and I will keep depending upon the intercession and prayers of Lord Jesus Messiah.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,401
6,739
113
Of course not!

By the truth. There’s only one truth. It’s from God in his word. The Bible.

After righteousness was imputed to me, for the forgiveness of my sins when I first repented and believed, I now use my members as instruments of righteousness and am zealous of good works as a member of his peculiar people.
that is fine, and proper.

but, you still sin. now, you can deny it, but that would make you your own standard, which of course is invalid.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
11PETER 2:20.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge
of The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are 'again entangled therein', and 'overcome',
the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
1COR. 15:2.
By which also you are saved, 'if you keep in memory what I preached unto you', unless you have 'believed in vain'.
9:27.
But I 'keep under my body', and bring it into (((subjection))): lest that by any means, when I have (((preached))) to others,
(((I myself should be a castaway. = reprobate = not approved)))!!!
 

Blue_Of_Lake

Active member
Jun 12, 2020
212
83
28
And is good for nothing.

Isn’t the kingdom of God “something”?


indeed it is (i believe so anyway).


I Peter 2 : 5

"5you also, like living stones, are being built ( through working, overcoming - with God's help but also is our choice and is a dying procedure - painful - crucifing the flesh - see verses below ) into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh ( crucify the flesh ), which war against your soul. 12Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.

Revelation 14

12Here is the endurance of the saints, those keeping the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice out of heaven, saying “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead dying in the Lord [ Matthew 16
21From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.

22But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand himk for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”

23Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.

24Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross ( following Jesus's example ) and follow me. 25If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. ] from now on.’”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they will rest from their labors ( because they have laboured much ) ; for their works follow with them ( follow them - Mean Something, go with them, are Theirs forever? - and is something They did - in conjunction With God / the Spirit - but also doing - Their Part - WORKING ).”



Luke 17 20Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.


I Peter 2 4As you come to Him ( follow Him, listen to Him, and Obey Him - Work on Ourselves - with the Spirit's help - and drawing nearer to the Spirit - also a Work ), the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight, 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices ( pick up your cross daily - Follow Me - follow - an action - a Work, not just believe, have faith, wait for God to work in You , believe that He will , wait for it to happen - without any work, action, doing, trying, changing, overcoming - Works ) acceptable to God through Jesus Christ ( through following Christ, picking up our cross daily - giving up own way - Choosing The Way of Life - not Death, dying to self - CHOOSING - a Work - to live to The Spirit - not to Ourselves ).


green is me :)
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
but, you still sin. now, you can deny it, but that would make you your own standard, which of course is invalid.
gd9,

The scripture declares plainly that sin is brought forth by lust (James 1:15).

The scripture declares plainly that believers have crucified the flesh with its lusts (Galatians 5:24).

How can sin continue in the believers who has crucified the flesh?

And who are you to tell me I still sin?

Don’t project your deficiencies on me.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I highly esteem Christ’s sacrifice. It is precious. Without it we’d still be in our sins.

I believe and live by the scripture.

Galatians 5:24
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Sin comes from lust. Sin eliminated.

Galatians 5:16
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Sin cannot manifest itself from a man walking in the Spirit. Sin eliminated.

But have you really been converted into the Spirit? Have you truly been born again? If you think sinlessness is a foolish pursuit, perhaps you’re the natural man described herein:

1 Corinthians 2:14
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What you do not understand IS JESUS PAID IT ALL.
Every sin you do, every sin of omitting to do good.
AND AVERY SIN IN YOUR THOUGHTS.
IT WAS ALL PAID FOR ON THE CROSS.

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Romans 5:8-10 (NASB)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,624
113
indeed it is (i believe so anyway).


I Peter 2 : 5

"5you also, like living stones, are being built ( through working, overcoming - with God's help but also is our choice and is a dying procedure - painful - crucifing the flesh - see verses below ) into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh ( crucify the flesh ), which war against your soul. 12Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.

Revelation 14

12Here is the endurance of the saints, those keeping the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice out of heaven, saying “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead dying in the Lord [ Matthew 16
21From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.

22But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand himk for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!”

23Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.

24Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross ( following Jesus's example ) and follow me. 25If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. ] from now on.’”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they will rest from their labors ( because they have laboured much ) ; for their works follow with them ( follow them - Mean Something, go with them, are Theirs forever? - and is something They did - in conjunction With God / the Spirit - but also doing - Their Part - WORKING ).”



Luke 17 20Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.


I Peter 2 4As you come to Him ( follow Him, listen to Him, and Obey Him - Work on Ourselves - with the Spirit's help - and drawing nearer to the Spirit - also a Work ), the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight, 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices ( pick up your cross daily - Follow Me - follow - an action - a Work, not just believe, have faith, wait for God to work in You , believe that He will , wait for it to happen - without any work, action, doing, trying, changing, overcoming - Works ) acceptable to God through Jesus Christ ( through following Christ, picking up our cross daily - giving up own way - Choosing The Way of Life - not Death, dying to self - CHOOSING - a Work - to live to The Spirit - not to Ourselves ).


green is me :)
Amen. Only the OSAS overcomers are doing the works. Those who are drinking draughts of living water from the bottomless well of Grace and power, those who abide those who persevere, all of this through a living faith, all in the Name of Jesus, all of which is a gift and work of God.

For those who do their own works in their own name for their own glory:

Matt 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have wenot prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,624
113
gd9,

The scripture declares plainly that sin is brought forth by lust (James 1:15).

The scripture declares plainly that believers have crucified the flesh with its lusts (Galatians 5:24).

How can sin continue in the believers who has crucified the flesh?

And who are you to tell me I still sin?

Don’t project your deficiencies on me.
I will take that as an admission that you do not sin.
And I say to you that Christ came to save sinners, therefore you are disqualified.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
What you do not understand IS JESUS PAID IT A
He took all our sins away at the time we truly repented and believed.

Now it is our responsibility to no longer sin.

Romans 6:2
[2] ...How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

If your dead to sin, sin cannot use you as a conduit.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
What will we eat in Heaven (also New Heaven and New Earth) - according to scripture? Here is this brother's study on that subject.