Not By Works

[jackrosie]

Preposterous!

A person who has quit smoking cigarettes can rightly claim to be a non-smoker.

But I guess in your judgment he is forever a smoker because he has smoked in the past.

Listen to yourself man!

A person who was addicted to smoking,is never truly free from that addiction......same as an alcoholic....

Only God can set a person free from an addiction.

 

[stonesoffire]

Whoa! Hold it!

I never said no one needed a Saviour.

All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

But the scripture does not say that once we are born again that we continue to sin and come short of the glory of God.

Your past sins were taken away when you first repented and believed the gospel (Romans 3:25); And you must continue in the goodness of the gospel in the fear of God lest you be cut off with the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-23).

Spin those scriptures all you want; but I wouldn’t tamper with the word of God if I were you. Especially forcing them into the context of OSAS.

As for your canned rebuke, sounds like you have trouble obeying authority. You should read Romans 13 in regards to those things.

You took those scriptures out of context. Paul is speaking about our attitude toward the Jews and Israel.

Rom 11:18 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

 

[DorothyMae]

I asked you a question..do you deny that a born again will see the kingdom of God.

ANSWER THE Question???

You refused to supply a Bible verse that desinates just who a “born again” is. Therefore it can only be that you have you OWN PERSONAL definition of what that means, not a Biblical one. Therefore I can give no guarantee that your personal preference as to what that means is one recognized by God. And God is the one making the decision. So how can I guarantee you, that what you think a”born again” is, is a designation recognized before His throne?

You guys are used to people assuring you that you are going to Heaven no matter how you behave to God and man. I don’t think like that and cannot give you the assurance you crave.

 

[DorothyMae]

A person who was addicted to smoking,is never truly free from that addiction......same as an alcoholic....

Only God can set a person free from an addiction.

I personally know hard core atheists who quit smoking. It’s much better to know what God does and what man can do and not attribute everything to God. He’s not so small minded that He insists He does it all for us all the time and we can do nothing.

 

[DorothyMae]

It’s not complex at all Dot. Jesus said what He did to Nicodemus because of the many washings that they performed to be declared “clean”. They called this being born again.

Then how come Nicodemus didn’t think he meant washings but thought he meant birth?? N had never heard the term and it was “born from above” as well. I don’t believe that for a minute. I think you made that up. Jesus certainly wasn’t advocating a jewish ritual.

So the baptism of John was a calling out to the people to confess, repent and turn to God for forgiveness. Something I’ve not thought of before but possibly their baptisms were curtailed by the Roman rule? Maybe, maybe not. I think I’ll look for my own curiosity.

The Romans had nothing against baptism nor judaism nor christianity until Nero.

Anyway, the birth of the Spirit man/woman came at Pentecost. The new and living way of being led through Holy Spirit. Rest forever as a child of God not a slave in the house.

A very interesting study out of the OT. Linen does not produce sweat/sweat come from, of course, work.

The undergarments of the priests were linen.

And the piece of cloth that was over the face of Jesus, was not a napkin as that beside a plate. It’s was a headband that men wore to keep the sweat from getting into their eyes(sight) while they worked.

Where was this cloth after Jesus came back from death? Separated from the linen.

Dot protested the first time I posted this. Study to show thyself approved....

I did study and I see no value in the above, sorry.

Do you know what linen is in Revelation? Study to show your understanding approved from above.

 

[DorothyMae]

You are the queen of no answers Dot. That wasn’t my quest.

However, no one can see or enter the Kingdom of God unless born from above,

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Born again means regenerated from above.

Born is regenerated but I thought you might balk at “above” since it says again.

G509 (Strong)

ἄνωθεν

anōthen

an'-o-then

From G507; from above; by analogy from the first; by implication anew: - from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.

Total KJV occurrences: 13


Posthuman posted truth earlier when he writes we are no longer flesh but Spirit. The truth given to Paul when he was taken where? Into the third heaven. A place where Jesus said that He was the only One to descend then the first of many brethren made in His likeness to ascend. Where does He say that? He said it when He says I go to prepare a place for you that you may be with me.

Now please give me the courtesy of an answer.

You have a difficult time posting a response without the stab, don’t you? In your next post, please give me the courtesy of writing the insult and then listen to the HOLY spirit and erasing it.

I know you weren’t a part of that exchange but JR point blank refused to post the scripture I asked for. My goal was to get her to read the Bible. She refused. Finally one of you answered.

I read your post twice. Where is the question you want answered? You post jumps between John who wrote the Gospel of John who did not report being taken into the third Heaven and Paul writing on an entirely different matter.

Please ask the question you want answered.

 

[DorothyMae]

As I have already said to you before, your detractors in this thread are fond of reading Paul's mystery revelations into the 4 gospels.

They do not consider the possibility that the Jews in the 4 gospels had no expectations of heaven, and certainly weren't thinking of going to heaven when they die.

They were looking forward to Jesus bringing to kingdom of heaven down to earth, and saving them from Roman rule, whom they hated.

Luke 1 had Zacharias declaring what the Jews were expecting from their promised Messiah.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

It was said that, before Jesus was born, during the 400 so years of silence after Malachi, the Roman great general Pompey actually entered their temple's holy of holies, curious to see what their image of God was like. That must rank as one of the big insults to Israel.

THANK YOU DO MUCH for your patience in telling me again. This makes perfect sense and lights came on when I read it. This is a great explanation of the thinking of the heaters and writers then.

 

[DorothyMae]

You need a break....look at you......your even quoting your own posts...

JR, you didn’t see that one of your team gave me a “disagree” when I wrote of knowing God. He doesn’t agree with knowing God.

 

[DorothyMae]

This woman is deliberately twisting scripture.

What is the kingdom of God????.......DorothyMae???.......answer the question.

The kingdom of God is where God is King.

 

[DorothyMae]

You are so pompous in your doctrine dottie. You feel nothing but "love" for those of us who are secure in our salvation and relationship with Our Lord? Pleezzzzz now that is downright condescending.

Part of my purpose is to show in live exchange the fruit of the OSAS doctrine in the hearts and here words of those who hold it in comparison with those who don’t. Your team very clearly shows what this doctrine does in the spirit.

I do admit it’s much harder for OSAS believers to remain calm and cordial as your theology is full of holes and scripture as well as logic easily expose it. One is likely left with stubborn adherence. You guys can not afford to think deeply about it. Rocking that boat means you fall out....not fall away, just out.

 

[DorothyMae]

He is plainly speaking about Heaven, the Kingdom of God to Nicodemus.

No, he came so that we might have life and that abundantly. He didn’t come so we can joyfully wait until after death to have life.

 

[DorothyMae]

I find this post very odious .... it has been REPORTED!!

Easier than answering the questions as to which works we do (works being reading theBible, praying, fellowship) you find are in the category of “works salvation” and to be avoided or merely optional extras. You guys rail on works so I thought it time tell you what they are while asking which you find unnecessary. I apologize for using “odious.” Was somewhat strong. Please forgive me,

 

[DorothyMae]

Listen you are not fooling me, and you are making it obvious you have no response.

Stop with the temporal and deal with the spiritual realm.

How does a person undo a spiritual decree/status by walking away?

If you are honest you will admit it takes a move of God, not man... and we know clearly from scripture God's decree is final.

Where has God decreed you “saved?”

Leaving and falling away takes some effort or over a long time neglecting it. I will think over this a bit as I’m almost at work and this deserves more time. Maybe I’ll dig up a blog I wrote for a site. Maybe Stone remembers it.

But the Biblical term is “fall away from” or “shipwreck” the faith, not “undo” or “unborn.” Nomenclature is important. All relationships can be potentially lost but they aren’t “undone.” I can tell you how a believer falls away from the faith having observed it personally to include watching Dan Barker fall away. He was our music minister.

 

[EleventhHour]

No, he came so that we might have life and that abundantly. He didn’t come so we can joyfully wait until after death to have life.

One does not exclude the other.

 

[EleventhHour]

You refused to supply a Bible verse that desinates just who a “born again” is. Therefore it can only be that you have you OWN PERSONAL definition of what that means, not a Biblical one. Therefore I can give no guarantee that your personal preference as to what that means is one recognized by God. And God is the one making the decision. So how can I guarantee you, that what you think a”born again” is, is a designation recognized before His throne?

You guys are used to people assuring you that you are going to Heaven no matter how you behave to God and man. I don’t think like that and cannot give you the assurance you crave.

This makes no sense.

 

[EleventhHour]

Easier than answering the questions as to which works we do (works being reading theBible, praying, fellowship) you find are in the category of “works salvation” and to be avoided or merely optional extras. You guys rail on works so I thought it time tell you what they are while asking which you find unnecessary. I apologize for using “odious.” Was somewhat strong. Please forgive me,

More twisting .... we do not rail on against works.

There are plenty of works done after salvation ....however none of them keep a person saved.

And as a matter a fact only OSAS has the correct understanding of the role of works.

 

[EleventhHour]

Where has God decreed you “saved?”

Leaving and falling away takes some effort or over a long time neglecting it. I will think over this a bit as I’m almost at work and this deserves more time. Maybe I’ll dig up a blog I wrote for a site. Maybe Stone remembers it.

But the Biblical term is “fall away from” or “shipwreck” the faith, not “undo” or “unborn.” Nomenclature is important. All relationships can be potentially lost but they aren’t “undone.” I can tell you how a believer falls away from the faith having observed it personally to include watching Dan Barker fall away. He was our music minister.

One cannot undo, fall away or leave the status of "justified"

It is not possible.

It is impossible for us to re-incur a debt once it has been paid, nor do we have the ability to give ourselves back the debt.

Again your temporal examples are meaningless.

 

[jackrosie]

You refused to supply a Bible verse that desinates just who a “born again” is. Therefore it can only be that you have you OWN PERSONAL definition of what that means, not a Biblical one. Therefore I can give no guarantee that your personal preference as to what that means is one recognized by God. And God is the one making the decision. So how can I guarantee you, that what you think a”born again” is, is a designation recognized before His throne?

You guys are used to people assuring you that you are going to Heaven no matter how you behave to God and man. I don’t think like that and cannot give you the assurance you crave.

I asked you a question...you have twisted my question..that is not what I asked.


Answer my question please....,do you deny what I asked....



Only a born again will see the kingdom of God?........do you deny what that says in the bible?


If you were Born Again......you would understand that question?

 

[jackrosie]

The kingdom of God is where God is King.

And where is that?

Where is God King?

 

[jackrosie]

JR, you didn’t see that one of your team gave me a “disagree” when I wrote of knowing God. He doesn’t agree with knowing God.

I don’t have a team DorothyMae......how do you know God?
What does knowing God mean to you?...please explain.

For me personally.....I know God resides in my spirit.....I have my own personal relationship with him....I have taken up my cross and follow....I can only follow him...,because he is the light and truth...I am NOTHING without him!....I try and walk in obedience to him....but ask him to help me because I can’t do it on my own..I need his strength...I also ask him to help me trust him in certain difficulties in my life.