We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.

[biker]

Paul takes care of the "license to sin" issue in the first 2 verses of Rom 6 ... Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid — very emphatic NO!!!

Everyone in those days were well aware of all of the beliefs. Jews were aware the Romans and Greeks had their deities, like many other nations. So, even though Paul is speaking to Romans (Gentiles), how are you for certain Paul is not using "Shall we continue in sin based upon the Jewish Law.

In other words, Paul could be explaining that even Gentiles are not held unto the Law like those Gentiles who converted to the Jewish beliefs. How are we certain since now that the Law has been abolished, that Gentiles sins cannot be committed? You are basically promoting a license to sin here with Paul's example.

 

[biker]

I like the op but the only issue is that yes our spirit is indeed reborn but the sin nature resides in the flesh itself not in the mind or soul. Even Paul still struggled with his flesh and he was perhaps the most respected and highly viewed servent of Christ.
Yes we are to renew our mind and to not sin but we may be born again however we are still human living in a human flesh and thus the battle of spirit vs flesh is a constant, we wage war against things of the spirit but we also wage war with our own sinful nature.
Anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar, even subconsiously we sin without even meaning to. anytime we have thoughts that contradict the spirit is sin, if you think about a person in a negative and unfair way that is a sin, if you see a person and without meaning to judge them by their appearance that is a sin, if you even see soemone on t.v. and think to yourself I hope that person dies and goes to hell for what they have done that also is a sin because it is not our job or role to condemn anyone to hell only to love and help guide them to Christ.

There is a positive point to the sinless doctrine but it also seems to be a misunderstood doctrine as well

Yep, a CARNAL mind is the FLESH BODY, not the Spirit nor the SOUL!

 

[Blain]

Yep, a CARNAL mind is the FLESH BODY, not the Spirit nor the SOUL!

Also I am not sure the soul resides in the mind. When we think of searching our hearts as we reflect upon the things inside us to find anything that would displease him and things we need to work on ourselves I mean maybe it is just me but when I do this when I search and look inside my own heart I don't think of or feel it in my mind.
When I probe my own heart and soul it seems to be more of my chest area almost like it is right above my mid section where I have always felt the holy spirit reside in me.

Actually did you know that we technically have two hearts anyway? I can't remember what is it is called but I learned it from the show Ncis

According to biology there is a mini organ right between our heart and our stomach that kind of works like a second heart but is alsop link to pour minds the process of it is fascinating and makes me want to study more about biology

 

[Peterlag]

I like the op but the only issue is that yes our spirit is indeed reborn but the sin nature resides in the flesh itself not in the mind or soul. Even Paul still struggled with his flesh and he was perhaps the most respected and highly viewed servent of Christ.
Yes we are to renew our mind and to not sin but we may be born again however we are still human living in a human flesh and thus the battle of spirit vs flesh is a constant, we wage war against things of the spirit but we also wage war with our own sinful nature.
Anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar, even subconsiously we sin without even meaning to. anytime we have thoughts that contradict the spirit is sin, if you think about a person in a negative and unfair way that is a sin, if you see a person and without meaning to judge them by their appearance that is a sin, if you even see soemone on t.v. and think to yourself I hope that person dies and goes to hell for what they have done that also is a sin because it is not our job or role to condemn anyone to hell only to love and help guide them to Christ.

There is a positive point to the sinless doctrine but it also seems to be a misunderstood doctrine as well

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. There's no battle. I very smart person on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

 

[biker]

Also I am not sure the soul resides in the mind. When we think of searching our hearts as we reflect upon the things inside us to find anything that would displease him and things we need to work on ourselves I mean maybe it is just me but when I do this when I search and look inside my own heart I don't think of or feel it in my mind.
When I probe my own heart and soul it seems to be more of my chest area almost like it is right above my mid section where I have always felt the holy spirit reside in me.

Actually did you know that we technically have two hearts anyway? I can't remember what is it is called but I learned it from the show Ncis

According to biology there is a mini organ right between our heart and our stomach that kind of works like a second heart but is alsop link to pour minds the process of it is fascinating and makes me want to study more about biology

No, the Mind controls the entire body. The spirit is our emotional state. The soul is what pays if the mind is allowed to be carnal and refuse God.

 

[Peterlag]

So if my anger gets the best of me and I blurt stupidities out that offend others, that is not sinning because I have been saved and therefore cannot sin?
Or
Are you proposing the license to Sin because once saved always saved Theory?

If you think salvation can be lost. Then I can't help you.

 

[biker]

He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

But that does not mean in his struggle to control the flesh, he does not sin. It just means, if and when he sins, he is not condemned because he is saved by Christ. But that does not mean he would not say to God, after sinning, forgive me. Only a non intelligent person would refuse to acknowledge their sin and ask to be forgiven.

 

[Blain]

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. There's no battle. I very smart person on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

I have to admit that is certainly a great way of understanding it, I do think the sinless doctrine is misunderstpood and this post explains that perfectly

 

[biker]

If you think salvation can be lost. Then I can't help you.

God will never take my Salvation from me. But I could easily walk away on my own account. Some would claim I was never saved before. But I claim, we don't know what can happen that would lead a person to blame God and not forgive God of what we believe He did.

 

[Blain]

No, the Mind controls the entire body. The spirit is our emotional state. The soul is what pays if the mind is allowed to be carnal and refuse God.

Well perhaps, I may have to do some studies on what scripture says about the matter. I mean the mind does seem to imply things but I wonder if there is some scripture that might explain the soul itself and where it actually resides.
When God created man he described it as becoming a living soul as if man himself was a soul but then where would that be if a certain part of man is where the soul resides.

 

[Peterlag]

How do you "reprogram" that "carnal mind" that "still function as programmed?

I don't reprogram my flesh. Walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

A very smart person on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**

 

[Peterlag]

I like the op but the only issue is that yes our spirit is indeed reborn but the sin nature resides in the flesh itself not in the mind or soul. Even Paul still struggled with his flesh and he was perhaps the most respected and highly viewed servent of Christ.
Yes we are to renew our mind and to not sin but we may be born again however we are still human living in a human flesh and thus the battle of spirit vs flesh is a constant, we wage war against things of the spirit but we also wage war with our own sinful nature.
Anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar, even subconsiously we sin without even meaning to. anytime we have thoughts that contradict the spirit is sin, if you think about a person in a negative and unfair way that is a sin, if you see a person and without meaning to judge them by their appearance that is a sin, if you even see soemone on t.v. and think to yourself I hope that person dies and goes to hell for what they have done that also is a sin because it is not our job or role to condemn anyone to hell only to love and help guide them to Christ.

There is a positive point to the sinless doctrine but it also seems to be a misunderstood doctrine as well

I don't see a battle. The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach.

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**

 

[Peterlag]

How do you "reprogram" that "carnal mind" that "still function as programmed?

A very smart man on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

 

[Peterlag]

How do you "reprogram" that "carnal mind" that "still function as programmed?

A very smart man on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

 

[biker]

Well perhaps, I may have to do some studies on what scripture says about the matter. I mean the mind does seem to imply things but I wonder if there is some scripture that might explain the soul itself and where it actually resides.
When God created man he described it as becoming a living soul as if man himself was a soul but then where would that be if a certain part of man is where the soul resides.

My Career is based upon Neurology and the functioning of the brain.

In studies, you can see a distinct activity awareness when a person is thinking about choices to make. (The Mind is focused and thinking)

In the case of how the mind reacts to images, many times the mind will go into a lull while the heart increases. (the Emotions have taken over which does not affect the mind, but affects the body)(clearly, this is our spirit being active).

Many times we can see a true tragedy and our bodies wrench. While the body is wrenched, the mind is trying to figure out what happened and what is the extent of the damage. Clearly proves the mind and spirit are separate from one another.

 

[Peterlag]

Not resurrect old man … but I do acknowledge that inherent in my flesh are the lusts, emotions, and old habit patterns.

Jesus did not eradicate the lusts of the flesh or our emotions. What Jesus did was set us free from the bondage we were under to fulfill the lusts of the flesh … which are never satisfied.

We now have what we need to overcome and not be held in bondage to the whims of our lusts/emotions. We now have the mastery and our lusts and emotions are subject to the Holy Spirit within each born again one.

God never tells us we will not be tempted ... God never tells us we will not face adversity in this life after we are born again ... God never tells us we will not suffer in this lifetime.

What God tells us is that we have the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ in facing temptation, adversity, suffering.





So you are never tempted? … never drawn away? … never stumble?

I have been (and still am) tempted … I haven’t always taken the bait, but there were times I did and I have been drawn away and I have stumbled. God, in His infinite mercy and grace, and in His faithfulness to His promise, has never left me. He has always been there when I finally realized that I had stumbled and He picks me up, holds me close, and loves me … even in my faltering and stumbling.

I have faced (and still do face) adversity ... suffering. I have cried in the night hours because in my weakness I have felt so overwhelmed. And God has always been there when I reached out to Him because He is faithful to His promise that He will never leave me or forsake me.

A very smart person on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**

 

[Peterlag]

Finally you said something that we can agree with. It’s a process. Everything up to this point was telling people if they sin then they aren’t in Christ. I agree with your conclusions but not your approach. Instead of Christ going around telling everybody what not to do (sin), He told them what to do (love). By focusing on our commandment to love others, we take the focus off of our own desires which leads to sin.

A very smart man on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

 

[Blain]

I don't see a battle. The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach.

For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**

I think believing we are alive in sin is not correct. Most believe and say and teach we are alive in Christ, however not all live in Christ. There is a difference with being alive in Christ and living in him. When we are born again we are then alive in him reborn but not all choose to walk the daily life of a believer some even fall away into their old lives like a dog returning to his vomit I even knew a person who was born again but he ended up thinking he could do as he pleased because of grace, it took him several years to get the message you cannot simply do as you please and take advantage of his grace..

 

[Peterlag]

What do you consider sin, specifically? There is so many things that God doesn’t condemn that man does. Also there are things that God requires that man does not. To plainly take a verse out of the Bible and post it is incomplete. I’m not disagreeing with the passage. All here should agree with the passage, but what does it mean to you? Why did you post it? Do you suggest that a moment of weakness can never occur? If you see a married woman and think she is easy on the eyes, then you are not a child of God? Some flesh is stronger than others. As children of God I agree we are a new creation but we are still bound to old flesh. I suggest our flesh is starved to death. It’s not immediate. The more you feed it the stronger it remains. So feed the spirit and starve the flesh. Seek the Lord continually. Love always. This is walking in the Light.

A very smart man on this site put it this way...

I thought it would be wise to mention Romans seven that seems to have the whole Christian world in confusion. There's really only one honest way to read Romans seven that deals with Paul talking about himself in the present tense when he wrote it. He writes it after he spends a chapter informing us about fifteen times that by joining with Christ we have died to sin through the spirit. He goes on to say his flesh still struggles, but that it's not him anymore because he's no longer living after the flesh. The reason there's no condemnation for us in Christ is because it's the flesh that has the sin, but the spirit does not, and it's the spirit that is our new man.

 

[biker]

Well perhaps, I may have to do some studies on what scripture says about the matter. I mean the mind does seem to imply things but I wonder if there is some scripture that might explain the soul itself and where it actually resides.
When God created man he described it as becoming a living soul as if man himself was a soul but then where would that be if a certain part of man is where the soul resides.

It's like hitting your thumb with a hammer when you missed the nail. Sometimes, the pain is not immediate.
But you look at your thumb and your mind relays this is going to hurt. Then boom, your thumb begins to hurt. This was your mind thinking and understanding that in the past when this happened it hurt. So, it sends out the relay that this going to hurt. And guess what, it does indeed hurt! That is not Emotions, but pain. When we suffer however, that is pain through the emotion. This is the spirit working. So we can have pain in 2 ways. One from the mind and the other from the emotions of our spirit.