Oh really?
For when we were in the flesh (Romans 7:5)
That is the whole context.
Ignore it if you wish.
We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.
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Oh really?
For when we were in the flesh (Romans 7:5)
That is the whole context.
Ignore it if you wish.
So what do you think they are saying here? Definitely not what you were saying about the wages of sin is death correct?
Verse 12 sin entered the world through Adams choice and death through each man’s sin
verse 13 sin was in the world before Moses
Verse 14 Death was there because men sinned
Verse 15 grace through Christ, one man, superior to Adams deed
What do you see differently?
Let me use the NLT version and you will see what I meant
12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13 Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14 Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
Is that clear enough? Everyone after Adam to Moses died even before sin could be imputed to their account. They may have committed acts of sin, but the law had not been given, so sin was not imputed to them.
Why did they die even though sin was not imputed to them by God? The only reason there can be is that Adam's disobedience in eating from the wrong tree was imputed to them.
It was Adam's sin nature in all of them, from Abel/Cain, all the way to Moses, that resulted in their deaths. Enoch of course was a unique exception.
What do you consider sin, specifically? There is so many things that God doesn’t condemn that man does. Also there are things that God requires that man does not. To plainly take a verse out of the Bible and post it is incomplete. I’m not disagreeing with the passage. All here should agree with the passage, but what does it mean to you? Why did you post it? Do you suggest that a moment of weakness can never occur? If you see a married woman and think she is easy on the eyes, then you are not a child of God? Some flesh is stronger than others. As children of God I agree we are a new creation but we are still bound to old flesh. I suggest our flesh is starved to death. It’s not immediate. The more you feed it the stronger it remains. So feed the spirit and starve the flesh. Seek the Lord continually. Love always. This is walking in the Light.
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
By looking at the sight you offered .Right from the start it becomes apparent someone is seeking after a signs and wonders gospel rather than walking by faith after the eternal not seen.
No need to seek a sign and wonder wonder wonder when one can simply believe prophecy. All Christian are full of the faith of Christ, the power that works in us. Jesus said it a evil generation that walks after sign and wonders (no faith)
Stephen did not perform any sign as a wonder Blasphemy to attribute the unseen work of the gospel to the hands of corrupted mankind. . God is not served by the corrupted things of this world.
Signs and wonders are not prophecy but as signs they are designed for the rebellious unbelieving world who does not believe prophecy the gospel
Attributing the work of the gospel to the hands of the apostles . Shows someone has committed blasphemy. Making corrupted mankind a legion of gods in the likeness of men .Paganism.
And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men . And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Acts 14:7-12
Finally you said something that we can agree with. It’s a process. Everything up to this point was telling people if they sin then they aren’t in Christ. I agree with your conclusions but not your approach. Instead of Christ going around telling everybody what not to do (sin), He told them what to do (love). By focusing on our commandment to love others, we take the focus off of our own desires which leads to sin.
"it is no longer me but sin that dwelleth in me"
that does not describe the person who is in the flesh.
it describes the person who inhabits a body of flesh but whose life is by the Spirit.
if that describes the person without God, who is in the flesh, then there is no condemnation for anyone, whether inside or outside Christ, and Christ is of no value to anyone, being superfluous.
Romans 8 begins with "therefore"
it is invalid without the argument which precedes it.
Romans 7 is the foundation upon which Romans 8 is built.
you do not have any business skipping chapters of Romans. you take a rung out of the ladder, you cannot continue climbing it.
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Galatians 5:17)
Augustine did not just pull these concepts out of thin air.
put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires
(Ephesians 4:22)
(Ephesians 4:22)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh
(John 3:6)
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
(1 Corinthians 2:14)
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
(1 Corinthians 2:14)
it's weird;
earlier this week someone else also told me i shouldn't be a "Romans 6 Christian" that i should instead be "a Romans 8 believer"
brother we do not have Romans 8 if we delete any of Romans 1-7.
there's no such thing as 'Romans chapter X Christian' vs 'Romans chapter Y Christian' --- if you are a believer you are a believer in the whole book and the scripture is not set against itself.
How is that different than what I said?
Well they were punished for their sin by death. So it’s not like it didn’t count. What it was we don’t know but the men of Noah’s day were all drowned because of their sin. Cain’s sin was also punished. So it’s not because of Adams sin, I don’t see that.
You cannot draw that conclusion because they were punished for sinning.
Why would Enoch be different and an exception and how come no one in the OT said anything close to this?
Salvation is the “done deal” … it is the gift of God received at the time we are born again.
Maturing is the “process” whereby we go from newborn babes, desiring the sincere milk of the word (1 Peter 2:2) to no longer children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine (Eph 4:14) … to full age wherein we have our senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Heb 5:14).
In this lifetime with these bodies, we will never be fully mature to the point where we are clothed with our house which is from heaven (2 Cor 5:2).
What we have in this lifetime is the earnest of the Spirit (2 Cor 5:5) … a token, a small portion of what we will be in new heaven new earth. And this earnest of the Spirit is held in our earthen vessel that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us (2 Cor 4:7).
And all of this "maturing" takes place as the Father works within us ... removing from us those things which are not beneficial to us and which hinder us in our relationship with Him (and which we sometimes hold on to because it is difficult for us to die to self ... jmho on the matter).
Sounds like sound advice
if you really think so then i think you do not have the gospel, but a religion of your own making.
Not resurrect old man … but I do acknowledge that inherent in my flesh are the lusts, emotions, and old habit patterns.
Jesus did not eradicate the lusts of the flesh or our emotions. What Jesus did was set us free from the bondage we were under to fulfill the lusts of the flesh … which are never satisfied.
We now have what we need to overcome and not be held in bondage to the whims of our lusts/emotions. We now have the mastery and our lusts and emotions are subject to the Holy Spirit within each born again one.
God never tells us we will not be tempted ... God never tells us we will not face adversity in this life after we are born again ... God never tells us we will not suffer in this lifetime.
What God tells us is that we have the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ in facing temptation, adversity, suffering.
So you are never tempted? … never drawn away? … never stumble?Peterlag said:
I have been (and still am) tempted … I haven’t always taken the bait, but there were times I did and I have been drawn away and I have stumbled. God, in His infinite mercy and grace, and in His faithfulness to His promise, has never left me. He has always been there when I finally realized that I had stumbled and He picks me up, holds me close, and loves me … even in my faltering and stumbling.
I have faced (and still do face) adversity ... suffering. I have cried in the night hours because in my weakness I have felt so overwhelmed. And God has always been there when I reached out to Him because He is faithful to His promise that He will never leave me or forsake me.
is Christ ascended but not risen?
was Christ resurrected but not crucified?
was Christ crucified but not incarnated?
if none of these things is without the others, why are you sitting there saying you can have the conclusion of an argument without the basis for it?