Questions about JW’s

[Absolutely]

It helps to study.

Or just get familiar with the bible.

You do not need those watchtower workbooks.

Just do your own study.

Then you will AUTOMATICALLY see the false and counterfeit.

 

[Absolutely]

HALLELUJAH!!!!!

JESUS IS THE VICTOR!!!!!!!

 

[fredoheaven]

All Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century were written in either ‘uncial’ or ‘majuscule’, that meant all letters were written with all capital letters, this is irrefutable, to deny this would be to deny all Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century. Manuscripts written in ‘miniscule’ only partially coming around in the 6th century and were not fully developed until the 9th century. The bulk of the Greek manuscripts are newer copies, and thus written in ‘miniscule’ as earlier manuscripts are both harder to find, as there were less written as Christianity was not as widespread, and because manuscripts deteriorate and get lost due to damage more over time. We know the 1CE manuscripts, which no one has, were written in uncial as ALL the writings from the bible in Greek which are extra-biblical are written as such, none are written in ‘miniscule’, so my justification is precise.

(1 Cor 8:4-6) “..THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE." FOR EVEN IF THERE ARE SO-CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH (AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY "GODS" AND MANY "LORDS"), YET FOR US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER..”

I have made no error in calling Jesus GOD and the Father GOD, me applying the term ‘GOD’ to both Jesus and the Father no more is an oxymoron than me highlighting Satan is called “THE GOD” (2 Cor 4:4), Moses was called GOD (Exo 7:1), Angels were called GODS (Ps 8:5), or a human King was called GOD (Ps 45:6), the term GOD being applied to them does not necessitate equalling the ‘one God’ the Father.

Then this leads you to another error in the translation since not all of NWT has all the upper letter GOD or GODS that you are saying. Your assumption that older COPIES written in UPPER case letters, majuscules or uncial got it right and they are representative of the original copies. You seem not to understand that even though those 6th Ce manuscript display the true font rendering since these copies are independent to each other and were copies and copies of the originals so called which had over time had witnesses are more than what you imagine.

Papyrus 98 (in the Gregory-Aland numbering), is an early copy of the New Testament in Greek. It is a papyrus manuscript of the Book of Revelation. The manuscript palaeographically had been assigned to years "100–200 according to WIKI and other sources.

Now if you are looking for a reality, if you are looking for ancestral ‘older does better’ then you need to take note that P98 written “100-200” is also written in lower case Greek alphabet. And so your justification is still not a precise one, hence, you are in much trouble with your understanding in 1 Cor. and BTW, which majuscule or uncial you are in reference to?

περ]ι̣εζωσμμ̣εν̣[ον προς τοις μαστοις ζωνην
χρυ]σεν [1:14] και η κ̣ε[φαλη αυτου και αι τριχες λευκαι
ως] εριον λευκον [ως χιων και οι οφθαλμοι αυτου ως
φλ]οξ πυρος [1:15] και [οι ποδες αυτου ομοιοι χαλκολιβανω
ως] εν καμινω πε[πυρωμενης και η φωνη αυτου ως
φωνη υδατων π̣[ολλων [1:16] και εχων εν τη δεξια χειρι
αυτου αστερες [ζ̅ και εκ του στοματος αυτου ρομ
φαια διστομος ο[ξεια εκπορευομενη και η οψις αυ
το̣υ ως ο η̣λ̣ιος φ[αινει εν τη δυναμει αυτου [1:17] και οτε ει
δ̣ο̣ν̣ αυτον ε[π]εσα [προς τους ποδας αυτου ως νεκρος
και εθηκε̣ τ̣η̣ν̣ [δεξιαν αυτου επ εμε λεγων
μη φοβ̣[ο]υ̣ ε̣γ̣ω̣ [ειμι ο πρωτος και ο εσχατος [1:18] και εγε
νομεν̣ ν̣εκ̣ρ̣ο̣[ς και ιδου ζων ειμι εις τους αιωνας
τ̣ω̣ν̣ α̣ι̣ω̣ν̣ω̣ν̣ [και εχω τας κλεις του θανατου και
του α̣δ̣ο̣υ̣ [1:19] γ̣ρ̣α̣ψ̣ο̣ν̣ [ουν α ειδες και α εισιν και α μελλει
γε̣ν̣ε̣[σ]θ̣α̣ι̣ [μετα ταυτα [1:20] το μυστηριον των ζ̅
α̣στερ̣ω̣ν̣ [ους ειδες επι της δεξιας μου και τας
ζ̅ λυχνει[α]ς [τας χρυσας οι ζ̅ αστερες αγγελοι των
ζ̅ εκκλησ̣ι̣ω̣ν̣ ε̣ι[σιν και αι λυχνιαι αι ζ̅ ζ̅ εκκλεσιαι
εισ]ι̣[ν [2:1] τω αγγελω της εν εφεσω εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγ
ε̣ι̣ [ο κρατων τους ζ̅ αστερας εν τη δεξια αυτου ο

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_98

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

 

[Magenta]

Translation;

"Ma'am that there sword you swing....that thing is too sharp...ouch"

All glory goes to God Still, I thank you for your kind words

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the Lord, and there is no savior besides Me."

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord has bared His holy arm in the sight of all the
nations, that all the ends of the earth may see the salvation of our God.

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other
name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth,
and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[creative111]

I live right in the neighborhood of the Hill kimora. Jehovah witnesses are all around me. They are a cult.
They are not allowed nor practice reading the Bible they have a second Bible which was written by Joseph Smith that they follow.
Joseph Smith said that the Bible was incorrect. That Satan had corrupted the written word.
They believe that Jesus came to the Americas after his Ascension and gave Joseph Smith the true vision.
Need I go any further?

I think your confused. These are mormon teachings not JW teachings. The two are not the same.

 

[biker]

NWL,

Since you avoided my post concerning how you arrive at your Oneness belief, I will ask this:


You claim the JWs are familiar with the Ancient Hebrew. The most used word in the first Chapters of the Book of Genesis is the word "BEGAT." Begat is a term APPLIED directly to a man, a woman, and the creation of a child between them.

Now, we know when the WORD (Jesus) was BEGAT, along with the WISDOM (Holy Spirit), there were No women and men to create children yet because Adam and Eve was not yet Created.

So, that means the term BEGAT towards the WORD (Jesus) and the WISDOM (Holy Spirit) do not apply to the offspring of a man and woman.

That automatically takes us to to the SECOND HEBREW BEGAT DEFINITION.

That is PURPOSE!

God BEGAT, or brought forth the WORD (Jesus) and the WISDOM (Holy Spirit) for a specific PURPOSE!

We know that Purpose was as CREATOR, SALVATION, RESURRECTION, ADVOCATE, COMFORTER, SPIRITUAL GIFTS, CONNECTION TO GOD, TO CONFIRM THE WORDS OF CHRIST, EVENTUAL JUDGE!

So Jesus is not Created, because before the BEGINNING, God took a part of HIMSELF and for a PURPOSE 2nd definition BEGAT the WORD and the WISDOM.


So I ask you, how can you claim and the JW's claim to understand the Ancient Hebrew Language, when you are applying the human definition of BEGAT to GOD?

If you don't know the difference in the BEGAT's, how do you think you know the other Hebrew terms you have defined to be correct?

 

[NWL]

The are many gods but only one God. Many fakes but only one genuine article. Many call themselves Christian but they are not genuine. You can sit in the garage and call yourself a car but that does not mean you are the genuine article.

If Jesu Christ is not Jehovah God incarnate then Jesus Christ would have been a fraud. That Jesus Christ rose from the dead bodily is proof that He was the genuine article.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again you do not answer my questions, why can you not see something is not right with your doctrine that you cannot even confirm what the Bible plainly states.

You state to me “[there] are many gods but only one God. Many fakes but only one genuine article”, you seem to claim that the ‘gods’ who are not the ‘genuine article’ are fakes, this begs the questions:


Was Moses a fake God in Exo 7:1?

Are the Angels fake gods in Ps 8:5?

Was the Israelite King in Ps 45:6 a fake God?


Again, your doctrine and what you state are not in harmony with what the bible states, I await your reply to my questions above and questions below.

Is Satan called "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?

 

[NWL]

You got her on eggshells too?

Me thinks you are getting routed by Gods word.
Your real is not bible centered so anyone with a bible gets your feelings hurt.

My friend, you need to get a grip of yourself, it is not reasonable for me to defend anything and everything throws at me, or else someone could cite 300 verses at me at once and demand I explain all of them, Magenta posted over 10 verses to me at once, along with another post, no doubt directed at me, with another 50+ verses, the fact that I don't have the time to explain them all and make the reasonable request for her to post the ones she believes are the strongest ones should hardly excite you as much as it is. At present, you seem unhealthily obsessed with JW's.

 

[NWL]

NWL,

Since you avoided my post concerning how you arrive at your Oneness belief, I will ask this:


You claim the JWs are familiar with the Ancient Hebrew. The most used word in the first Chapters of the Book of Genesis is the word "BEGAT." Begat is a term APPLIED directly to a man, a woman, and the creation of a child between them.

Now, we know when the WORD (Jesus) was BEGAT, along with the WISDOM (Holy Spirit), there were No women and men to create children yet because Adam and Eve was not yet Created.

So, that means the term BEGAT towards the WORD (Jesus) and the WISDOM (Holy Spirit) do not apply to the offspring of a man and woman.

That automatically takes us to to the SECOND HEBREW BEGAT DEFINITION.

That is PURPOSE!

God BEGAT, or brought forth the WORD (Jesus) and the WISDOM (Holy Spirit) for a specific PURPOSE!

We know that Purpose was as CREATOR, SALVATION, RESURRECTION, ADVOCATE, COMFORTER, SPIRITUAL GIFTS, CONNECTION TO GOD, TO CONFIRM THE WORDS OF CHRIST, EVENTUAL JUDGE!

So Jesus is not Created, because before the BEGINNING, God took a part of HIMSELF and for a PURPOSE 2nd definition BEGAT the WORD and the WISDOM.


So I ask you, how can you claim and the JW's claim to understand the Ancient Hebrew Language, when you are applying the human definition of BEGAT to GOD?

If you don't know the difference in the BEGAT's, how do you think you know the other Hebrew terms you have defined to be correct?

Excuse me if I missed your post, I've been coming back to the forum every now and again to over ten posts directed at me, many by trolls, and I either do not see the post, forget, or do not have the time to respond to everyone.

Firstly, I have nowhere claimed JW's know ancient Hebrew, secondly, I've never applied the term 'begat' to God, where have I done this?

By answering your questions I would be admitting to things I have not done or believe, please rephrase and ask again.

 

[NWL]

Providing Scriptures that clearly show Jesus is God is Bible bashing? Why don't YOU pick one of the many verses I gave to discuss? There are certainly a lot of them you would have to ignore not to see that Scripture attests to Jesus being God. LOL @ me fighting the Bible, when you are the one denying what it says

Well, you didn't address anything I said to you, you just seem to throw more scriptures into the works to try and prove what you have claimed, this is what I meant by bible bashing and fighting scripture with scripture. I never said you were 'fighting the bible', nor did I call you a bible basher directly but clearly stated us, by my usage of "we", to show I was not trying to insult.

The ball is in your court, the onus is own you to pick a verse that supports your position, not me. I should again remind you I have no issue accepting Jesus is not God, he simply isn't the "one God", I've made this ever so clear in my post but seems to get dismissed a lot.

Not only that, your NWT makes JWs out to be polytheists.

The NWT is not my bible, it is simply one of the many bibles I use. I assume your'e talking about John 1:1 when you say the NWT makes JW's polytheists, I'll ask you the same questions I asked someone else on this thread:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?

"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)

 

[NWL]

Not true NWL, John 1:1 is "NOT" referring to the Genesis 1:1 beginning and here is why? Both references at Genesis 1:1 and at John 1:1 start out as "in beginning." The definite article "the" is not in the text original text.

So, Genesis 1:1 states, "In beginning" God created the heavens and the earth" John 1:1 states, "In beginning" was the Wor4d, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," (I don't see the words "a god" anywhere in the text.) I do see, "and the Word was God." Like I said both verses start out with "in beginning."

The main thought in Genesis 1:1 is "WHAT HAPPENED" in the beginning. The main thought at John 1:1 the emphasis is on "WHO EXISTED" in the beginning. So the beginning at Genesis 1:1 is referring to when time began and God created the heavens and the earth. This means that at John 1:1 the beginning antecedes the Genesis "beginning" because God is eternal and He has not beginning.

Just like what He said at Exodus 3:14, "I AM WHO I AM." Or to put it another way, "I EXIST," period. And btw, quit changing what I said about the angels being there with God. The point is the fact that angels "DID NOT" have a hand in creating a darn thing. That's why "BY MYSELF" AND "ALL ALONE" mean just that.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

How long ago did God create the universe along with the Earth and Adam then, how many years has it approximately been?

 

[bojack]

YHWH = Jesus

 

[biker]

Excuse me if I missed your post, I've been coming back to the forum every now and again to over ten posts directed at me, many by trolls, and I either do not see the post, forget, or do not have the time to respond to everyone.

Firstly, I have nowhere claimed JW's know ancient Hebrew, secondly, I've never applied the term 'begat' to God, where have I done this?

By answering your questions I would be admitting to things I have not done or believe, please rephrase and ask again.

The Post you just answered of mine is a reference to you thinking Jesus is a created being. How can something, come from within God Himself, that is used for a PURPOSE (the WORD), be a Created Being when it is still God Himself?

 

[Magenta]

Well, you didn't address anything I said to you, you just seem to throw more scriptures into the works to try and prove what you have claimed, this is what I meant by bible bashing and fighting scripture with scripture. I never said you were 'fighting the bible', nor did I call you a bible basher directly but clearly stated us, by my usage of "we", to show I was not trying to insult.

The ball is in your court, the onus is own you to pick a verse that supports your position, not me. I should again remind you I have no issue accepting Jesus is not God, he simply isn't the "one God", I've made this ever so clear in my post but seems to get dismissed a lot.

It appears you are not here for honest discussion, you're simply fighting the bible with the bible which is good for nothing. If you wish to engage with me please pick a scripture or two that you think best supports what you say and we can both discuss it civilly, and not like bible bashers.

 

[Magenta]

.

 

[bojack]

Do not fret creative 111 ,, He arose from the dead, He is alive .. God came as a man to show us how to act towards both man and God.. Then He resurrected for us to prove life after death, Good News

 

[NWL]

Yes, I gave a lot of Scriptures because there are SO MANY that attest to the fact that God is the only Rock of salvation and that Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. If you sink under the sheer weight of that Rock, it can hardly be said to be my fault

Thank you for showing to everyone I did not say you were 'fighting the bible' but rather "fighting the bible with the bible", the two statements are different and express different things. ''Fighting the bible' implies you are against the bible, whereas by me stating you were "fighting the bible with the bible" I was expressing you were fighting scripture with other scripture, as you weren't explaining why I was wrong but again, throwing more scripture into the mix.

I should also highlight in my post 190 I was meant to say "I have no issue accepting Jesus is God, he simply isn't the "one God"" and not "I have no issue accepting Jesus is not God, he simply isn't the "one God", "

The questions that remain:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?

"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)

 

[Magenta]

Thank you for showing to everyone I did not say you were 'fighting the bible' but rather "fighting the bible with the bible", the two statements are different and express different things. ''Fighting the bible' implies you are against the bible, whereas by me stating you were "fighting the bible with the bible" I was expressing you were fighting scripture with other scripture, as you weren't explaining why I was wrong but again, throwing more scripture into the mix.

Yes, I gave a lot of Scriptures because there are SO MANY that attest to the fact that God is the only Rock of salvation and that Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. If you sink under the sheer weight of that Rock, it can hardly be said to be my fault

Doing so is not fighting the Bible with the Bible, but rather proper hermeneutics, which you are sadly lacking and strenuously resist.

 

[NWL]

[COLOR=rgb(147, 101, 184)]Yes, I gave a lot of Scriptures because there are SO MANY that attest to the fact that God is the only Rock of salvation [B][U]and[/U][/B] that Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. If you sink under the sheer weight of that Rock, it can hardly be said to be my fault :)
[/COLOR]

So are you stating if I cite as many scriptures as you did in support of my position you'll give a response to each and every one? Confirm you'll do this and I'll exegete the verse you cited and I'll give you the same amount to exegete at the same time, are we in agreement?

Atm you haven't even been able to answer 5 questions let alone 60 + verses.

The questions that remain:

Is Satan "the god of this world" according to 2 Cor 4:4?
Was Moses "God to Pharaoh" according to Exo 7:1?
Are angels called Elohim/gods according to Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7?
Did Jesus tell some Jews "you are gods" in John 10:34?
Did Paul state there are "many gods" in 1 Cor 8:5?

"among whom [satan] the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.." (2 Corinthians 4:4)
"And the Lord [YHWH] said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.."
"You have made them a little lower than the angels [Elohim/gods] and crowned them with glory and honor.." (Psalms 8:5 NIV. Compare Hebrews 2:7)
"God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods he judges.." (Psalm 82:1)
"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”..’ (John 10:34)

 

[bojack]

Thank you for showing to everyone I did not say you were 'fighting the bible' but rather "fighting the bible with the bible", the two statements are different and express different things. ''Fighting the bible' implies you are against the bible, whereas by me stating you were "fighting the bible with the bible" I was expressing you were fighting scripture with other scripture, as you weren't explaining why I was wrong but again, throwing more scripture into the mix.

Torture stake ? JW'S are liars with an agenda to control their slaves, come out from among them .. Print of the nail(S) in His hands from a cross
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.