Questions about JW’s

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
The Greek word there is 'haššāmayim' (STRONGS 8064: shamayim) and can either be translated heavens or heaven in Genesis 1:1, some translations have heavens, whilst others have heaven, it really doesn't matter which one. What you've said doesn't change anything I've said, the Genesis account is still talking about the creation of the heavens and the earth, or the earth and the heaven.

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Berean Study Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New King James Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Contemporary English Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

JPS Tanakh 1917
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
You just demonstrated the shaky ground you guys stand on trying to make tiny markers as being your foundation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
As I expressed in my previous post, Jesus using the expression "I am he" (ego emi) was either an expression of him confirming messiahship, as he did in John 4:25,26, or confirming a particular point to a specific topic of discussion. Nothing you posted goes contrary to what, I've again, just said.
There are many Scriptures that attest to Jesus Christ being God whether you knowledge them or not. Here are some example:s

Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.

Whose blood? The blood of Jesus! Ergo, Jesus is God :)
Acts 20:28b

"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel" (which means "God with us"). Mathew 1:23

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.” Who is the savior? Christ Himself.

Isaiah 44:6-
(God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16- (Jesus made all things)

John 14:9-11 -
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 -
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Philippians 2:5-7 -
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9- For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
Lol
"Ambassador " hurt your feelings?
Too funny
Not at all. Call me an ambassador all day long if it makes you feel happy. Reverting to ad hominems in the face of argumentation only belittles your position.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. God is the only Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Genesis 49:24
But his bow remained firm, And his arms were agile, From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),

Deuteronomy 32:15
"But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked-- You are grown fat, thick, and sleek-- Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.

2 Samuel 23:3
"The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me, 'He who rules over men righteously, Who rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 42:9
I will say to God my rock, "Why have You forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"

Isaiah 30:29
You will have songs as in the night when you keep the festival, And gladness of heart as when one marches to the sound of the flute, To go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

Habakkuk 1:12
Are You not from everlasting, O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge; And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.

2 Samuel 22:32
"For who is God, besides the LORD? And who is a rock, besides our God?

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no
one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

Isaiah 44:8
'Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"

Deuteronomy 32:31
"Indeed their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves judge this.

Deuteronomy 32:37
"And He will say, 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

Psalm 144:1
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle;

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Psalm 92:15
To declare that the LORD is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Psalm 62:7
On God my salvation and my glory rest; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.

Psalm 28:1
To You, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 31:1-3
In You, O LORD, I have taken refuge; Let me never be ashamed; In Your righteousness deliver me. Incline Your ear to me, rescue me quickly; Be to me a rock of strength, A stronghold to save me. For You are my rock and my fortress; For Your name's sake You will lead me and guide me.

Psalm 61:2
From the end of the earth I call to You when my heart is faint; Lead me to the rock that is higher than I.

Psalm 71:3
Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come; You have given commandment to save me, For You are my rock and my fortress.

Isaiah 26:4
"Trust in the LORD forever, For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.

Psalm 94:22
But the LORD has been my stronghold, And my God the rock of my refuge.

2 Samuel 22:3
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing for joy to the LORD, Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.

2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be God, the rock of my salvation,

Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,
Psalm 19:14

Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 62:2
He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.

Psalm 89:26
"He will cry to Me, 'You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.'

Isaiah 17:10
For you have forgotten the God of your salvation And have not remembered the rock of your refuge. Therefore you plant delightful plants And set them with vine slips of a strange god.

Isaiah 8:14
"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

Mark 12:10
"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone'?

Acts 4:11
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

1 Peter 2:6-7
For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

Matthew 21:44
"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Luke 20:18
"Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces;
but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Romans 9:32-33
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Peter 2:4-8
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name
under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
רֵ אשִׁ ית 11:
b·rashith
in·beginning
בָּ רָ א
bra
he-created
אֱ
הִ ים
aleim
Elohim
אֵ ת
ath
»
הַ שָּׁ מַ יִ ם
e·shmim
the·heavens
וְ אֵ ת
u·ath
and·»
הָ אָ רֶ ץ
e·artz
the·earth
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. God is the only Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Genesis 49:24
But his bow remained firm, And his arms were agile, From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),

Deuteronomy 32:15
"But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked-- You are grown fat, thick, and sleek-- Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.

2 Samuel 23:3
"The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me, 'He who rules over men righteously, Who rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 42:9
I will say to God my rock, "Why have You forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"

Isaiah 30:29
You will have songs as in the night when you keep the festival, And gladness of heart as when one marches to the sound of the flute, To go to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

Habakkuk 1:12
Are You not from everlasting, O LORD, my God, my Holy One? We will not die You, O LORD, have appointed them to judge; And You, O Rock, have established them to correct.

2 Samuel 22:32
"For who is God, besides the LORD? And who is a rock, besides our God?

Psalm 18:31
For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,

1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no
one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

Isaiah 44:8
'Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"

Deuteronomy 32:31
"Indeed their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves judge this.

Deuteronomy 32:37
"And He will say, 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

Psalm 144:1
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle;

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Psalm 92:15
To declare that the LORD is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Psalm 62:7
On God my salvation and my glory rest; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.

Psalm 28:1
To You, O LORD, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 31:1-3
In You, O LORD, I have taken refuge; Let me never be ashamed; In Your righteousness deliver me. Incline Your ear to me, rescue me quickly; Be to me a rock of strength, A stronghold to save me. For You are my rock and my fortress; For Your name's sake You will lead me and guide me.

Psalm 61:2
From the end of the earth I call to You when my heart is faint; Lead me to the rock that is higher than I.

Psalm 71:3
Be to me a rock of habitation to which I may continually come; You have given commandment to save me, For You are my rock and my fortress.

Isaiah 26:4
"Trust in the LORD forever, For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.

Psalm 94:22
But the LORD has been my stronghold, And my God the rock of my refuge.

2 Samuel 22:3
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior, You save me from violence.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing for joy to the LORD, Let us shout joyfully to the rock of our salvation.

2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be God, the rock of my salvation,

Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,
Psalm 19:14

Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 62:2
He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.

Psalm 89:26
"He will cry to Me, 'You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.'

Isaiah 17:10
For you have forgotten the God of your salvation And have not remembered the rock of your refuge. Therefore you plant delightful plants And set them with vine slips of a strange god.

Isaiah 8:14
"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

Mark 12:10
"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;

Luke 20:17
But Jesus looked at them and said, "What then is this that is written: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone'?

Acts 4:11
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

1 Peter 2:6-7
For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

Matthew 21:44
"And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Luke 20:18
"Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces;
but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

Romans 9:32-33
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

1 Peter 2:4-8
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name
under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
The watchtowers will say
"Oh yes salvation comes "through" Jesus."

They switch,reframe and change everything.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
.
Should it be decided to go head to head with Watchtower Society
missionaries, here's some useful tips passed on by Pete, the ex Jehovah's
Witness mentioned in post No.107.


1• Round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's "New World Translation of
the Bible" and its "Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures."
Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and Salvation
Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.


For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name authored by a different agency.


2• Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.


3• Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.


4• Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the
conversation.


5• Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win-- you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering and no pressuring.


The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.


6• Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.


The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.


7• Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to
repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your
voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor
get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If
they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their
tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no use in
speaking when their minds are elsewhere engaged.


8• Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.


9• Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.


10• Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the
argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking
the substance of the argument itself. They will most likely challenge your
qualifications, especially your credibility with the Greek and Hebrew
languages, so be prepared for that.


11• These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in
ways they've already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.


It is my personal opinion that it's not a good idea to attempt to evangelize a
Watchtower missionary as I can just about guarantee that most experienced
JWs are better at evangelizing you than you are them. If you think that your
own gospel message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll find out right quick
that their silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.
_
They capitalize on not a lot of people having a firm Biblical foundation of truth. Here comes some people with Bibles who are friendly and confidently proclaiming to others what they think the truth is.

Most people will hear someone out if they are nice and well presented even if they don't necessarily agree with what's being said. Also, most people are too nice turn away a modest gift like a cheap pamphlet. Often people aren't self aware enough to realize that people often have ulterior motives.

I also recommend studying propaganda techniques. Not so that we can use them, but so that we can identify when people are trying to manipulate us with information. Like JWs do - probably without even being aware that they are agents of darkness.

I admit that being aware of the constant onslaught on propaganda from every sector that can influence public opinion makes my view of the world a little jaded. However, it's worth it be armed with the truth. Be innocent as a dove and as wise as a serpent.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,
. . .
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn." (Zechariah 12:1, 10)


YHWH states that Israel will look on HIM, the One they have pierced, and mourn -- He identifies HIMSELF as "the One they have pierced" and also indicates that they "will look upon" HIM.

Jesus is very clearly the One who they pierced -- and He also is the One who every eye will see when He returns.

With thanks to @posthuman :)
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Not at all. Call me an ambassador all day long if it makes you feel happy. Reverting to ad hominems in the face of argumentation only belittles your position.
I am an ambassador. For the King. His name is Jesus.

Get on with something meaningful.

Your flyspecks are too tedious
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
You do not seem like you are up for an honest and upbuilding discussion Absolutely, it seems like you have much hate for JW's despite the fact we as Christians were told to love everyone, even our enemies and to treat people the way we want to be treated. Hopefully I'm wrong.

In that case heaven is ok with Jesus receiving worship.

Which can only mean Jesus is co equal with the Father.
A shared throne
I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion, the verse states there is "one God the Father", how does that imply Jesus is equal with the Father??

The Father, who is the 'one God', allows Jesus to sit on his throne, other too also share the throne of God, nothing about sitting on the throne of God demands that whoever sits on the throne is equal with God, check the following verses that express others sitting on the throne of God.

(Revelation 3:21) "..To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.."
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,118
538
113
When John mentioned the 'beginning' in John 1:1 he was referring to the 'beginning' mentioned in Gen 1:1, and the 'beginning' mentioned in Genesis referred to the creation of the earth and its heaven, it was not referring to the creation of the entire universe. So the word/Jesus being with God in the beginning in John 1:1 was talking about the beginning of the creation of the earth. This isn't to say that Jesus was not with God at the beginning of creation as revealed in other scripture.
Not true NWL, John 1:1 is "NOT" referring to the Genesis 1:1 beginning and here is why? Both references at Genesis 1:1 and at John 1:1 start out as "in beginning." The definite article "the" is not in the text original text.

So, Genesis 1:1 states, "In beginning" God created the heavens and the earth" John 1:1 states, "In beginning" was the Wor4d, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," (I don't see the words "a god" anywhere in the text.) I do see, "and the Word was God." Like I said both verses start out with "in beginning."

The main thought in Genesis 1:1 is "WHAT HAPPENED" in the beginning. The main thought at John 1:1 the emphasis is on "WHO EXISTED" in the beginning. So the beginning at Genesis 1:1 is referring to when time began and God created the heavens and the earth. This means that at John 1:1 the beginning antecedes the Genesis "beginning" because God is eternal and He has not beginning.

Just like what He said at Exodus 3:14, "I AM WHO I AM." Or to put it another way, "I EXIST," period. And btw, quit changing what I said about the angels being there with God. The point is the fact that angels "DID NOT" have a hand in creating a darn thing. That's why "BY MYSELF" AND "ALL ALONE" mean just that.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
You do not seem like you are up for an honest and upbuilding discussion Absolutely, it seems like you have much hate for JW's despite the fact we as Christians were told to love everyone, even our enemies and to treat people the way we want to be treated. Hopefully I'm wrong.



I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion, the verse states there is "one God the Father", how does that imply Jesus is equal with the Father??

The Father, who is the 'one God', allows Jesus to sit on his throne, other too also share the throne of God, nothing about sitting on the throne of God demands that whoever sits on the throne is equal with God, check the following verses that express others sitting on the throne of God.

(Revelation 3:21) "..To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.."
What is your point?
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
I am an ambassador. For the King. His name is Jesus.

Get on with something meaningful.

Your flyspecks are too tedious
Flypecks?... I've said nothing to insult you or to hurt you feelings. But obviously for you to say that something I said must have hit a nerve.

Perhaps you should stop trolling and instead get on with something meaningful too.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
. . . then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with everyone according to all they do, since you know their hearts (for you alone know every human heart), so that they will fear you all the time they live in the land you gave our ancestors. (1 Kings 8:39-40)

→ only Yah knows the hearts of all people.

But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because He knew all men, And needed
not that any should testify of man: for He knew what was in man.(John 2:24-25)


→ Jesus knows the heart of all people.

With thanks once again to @posthuman :)
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
There are many Scriptures that attest to Jesus Christ being God whether you knowledge them or not. Here are some example:s

Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.

Whose blood? The blood of Jesus! Ergo, Jesus is God :)Acts 20:28b

"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel" (which means "God with us"). Mathew 1:23

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.” Who is the savior? Christ Himself.

Isaiah 44:6- (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by Himself alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16- (Jesus made all things)


John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9- For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
It appears you are not here for honest discussion, you're simply fighting the bible with the bible which is good for nothing. If you wish to engage with me please pick a scripture or two that you think best supports what you say and we can both discuss it civilly, and not like bible bashers.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
You do not seem like you are up for an honest and upbuilding discussion Absolutely, it seems like you have much hate for JW's despite the fact we as Christians were told to love everyone, even our enemies and to treat people the way we want to be treated. Hopefully I'm wrong.



I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion, the verse states there is "one God the Father", how does that imply Jesus is equal with the Father??

The Father, who is the 'one God', allows Jesus to sit on his throne, other too also share the throne of God, nothing about sitting on the throne of God demands that whoever sits on the throne is equal with God, check the following verses that express others sitting on the throne of God.

(Revelation 3:21) "..To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.."

Acts 7:55–56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 3:21; Matthew 22:44; Acts 2:33

55 But he, nfull of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw othe glory of God, and Jesus standing pat the right hand of God. 56 And he said, “Behold, I see qthe heavens opened, and rthe Son of Man standing pat the right hand of God.”

34 tWho is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—uwho is at the right hand of God, vwho indeed is interceding for us.1

20 that he worked in Christ wwhen he raised him from the dead and xseated him at his right hand yin the heavenly places,

Put On the New Self
3 bIf then you have been raised with Christ, seek cthe things that are above, where Christ is, dseated at the right hand of God.

3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and hthe exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. iAfter making purification for sins, jhe sat down kat the right hand of the Majesty on high,
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
It appears you are not here for honest discussion, you're simply fighting the bible with the bible which is good for nothing. If you wish to engage with me please pick a scripture or two that you think best supports what you say and we can both discuss it civilly, and not like bible bashers.
Providing Scriptures that clearly show Jesus is God is Bible bashing? Why don't YOU pick one of the many verses I gave to discuss? There are certainly a lot of them you would have to ignore not to see that Scripture attests to Jesus being God. LOL @ me fighting the Bible, when you are the one denying what it says :) Not only that, your NWT makes JWs out to be polytheists.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
It appears you are not here for honest discussion, you're simply fighting the bible with the bible which is good for nothing. If you wish to engage with me please pick a scripture or two that you think best supports what you say and we can both discuss it civilly, and not like bible bashers.
You got her on eggshells too?

Me thinks you are getting routed by Gods word.
Your real is not bible centered so anyone with a bible gets your feelings hurt.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Providing Scriptures that clearly show Jesus is God is Bible bashing? Why don't YOU pick one of the many verses I gave to discuss? There are certainly a lot of them you would have to ignore not to see that Scripture attests to Jesus being God. LOL @ me fighting the Bible. You are the one denying what it says :) Not only that, your NWT makes JWs out to be polythesists.
Translation;

"Ma'am that there sword you swing....that thing is too sharp...ouch"