Questions about JW’s

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,783
1,067
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
Should it be decided to go head to head with Watchtower Society
missionaries, here's some useful tips passed on by Pete, the ex Jehovah's
Witness mentioned in post No.107.

1• Round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's "New World Translation of
the Bible
" and its "Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures."
Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and Salvation
Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name authored by a different agency.

2• Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.

3• Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.

4• Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the
conversation.

5• Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win-- you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering and no pressuring.

The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.

6• Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.

The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.

7• Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to
repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your
voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor
get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If
they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their
tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no use in
speaking when their minds are elsewhere engaged.

8• Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

9• Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

10• Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the
argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking
the substance of the argument itself. They will most likely challenge your
qualifications, especially your credibility with the Greek and Hebrew
languages, so be prepared for that.

11• These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in
ways they've already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

It is my personal opinion that it's not a good idea to attempt to evangelize a
Watchtower missionary as I can just about guarantee that most experienced
JWs are better at evangelizing you than you are them. If you think that your
own gospel message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll find out right quick
that their silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.
_
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
The scribal error here "god/s" not in reference to God. Your previous post equate Jesus with the Father which is 'God" (G in upper case letter not 'g' lower case letter).

Your Greek instance of using capital letters simply refers to CODEX, or CODICES (plural) and said to be MAJUSCULE but you have to take note that there are also Greek manuscripts written in an UNCAPITALIZED Letters called MINISCULE and the bulk of the Greek extant are of these group.

Simply, I put your justification is not precise, hence, you have misunderstood the text in 1 Cor.
All Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century were written in either ‘uncial’ or ‘majuscule’, that meant all letters were written with all capital letters, this is irrefutable, to deny this would be to deny all Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century. Manuscripts written in ‘miniscule’ only partially coming around in the 6th century and were not fully developed until the 9th century. The bulk of the Greek manuscripts are newer copies, and thus written in ‘miniscule’ as earlier manuscripts are both harder to find, as there were less written as Christianity was not as widespread, and because manuscripts deteriorate and get lost due to damage more over time. We know the 1CE manuscripts, which no one has, were written in uncial as ALL the writings from the bible in Greek which are extra-biblical are written as such, none are written in ‘miniscule’, so my justification is precise.

(1 Cor 8:4-6) “..THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE." FOR EVEN IF THERE ARE SO-CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH (AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY "GODS" AND MANY "LORDS"), YET FOR US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER..”

I have made no error in calling Jesus GOD and the Father GOD, me applying the term ‘GOD’ to both Jesus and the Father no more is an oxymoron than me highlighting Satan is called “THE GOD” (2 Cor 4:4), Moses was called GOD (Exo 7:1), Angels were called GODS (Ps 8:5), or a human King was called GOD (Ps 45:6), the term GOD being applied to them does not necessitate equalling the ‘one God’ the Father.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Yes good job bluto

I would add that Jesus is the firstfruits.
Nobody else, even though Lazarus was raised before Jesus.
But Lazarus died again.

Jesus,as you pointed out,raised permanently.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
.
Should it be decided to go head to head with Watchtower Society
missionaries, here's some useful tips passed on by Pete, the ex Jehovah's
Witness mentioned in post No.107.

1• Round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's "New World Translation of
the Bible
" and its "Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures."
Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and Salvation
Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name authored by a different agency.

2• Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.

3• Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.

4• Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the
conversation.

5• Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win-- you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering and no pressuring.

The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.

6• Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.

The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.

7• Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to
repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your
voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor
get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If
they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their
tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no use in
speaking when their minds are elsewhere engaged.

8• Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

9• Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

10• Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the
argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking
the substance of the argument itself. They will most likely challenge your
qualifications, especially your credibility with the Greek and Hebrew
languages, so be prepared for that.

11• These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in
ways they've already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

It is my personal opinion that it's not a good idea to attempt to evangelize a
Watchtower missionary as I can just about guarantee that most experienced
JWs are better at evangelizing you than you are them. If you think that your
own gospel message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll find out right quick
that their silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.
_
Yep
Bring the word.
Make them refute the bible.

Watch out for their tactics.
They are trained to act like you are offended as nd can not just discuss their deal.
They want pious perception like they are really on Gods side.
Then frame you as mad,upset,and flustered.

Tactics. They use tactics.
No Holy Spirit about them.
Just robotic workbook parroting.
See them in that light. See them scramble mentally as if going page by page reading from their workbooks.

They only know their prepared verses.

No working knowledge of why it had to be God on the cross.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
All Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century were written in either ‘uncial’ or ‘majuscule’, that meant all letters were written with all capital letters, this is irrefutable, to deny this would be to deny all Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century. Manuscripts written in ‘miniscule’ only partially coming around in the 6th century and were not fully developed until the 9th century. The bulk of the Greek manuscripts are newer copies, and thus written in ‘miniscule’ as earlier manuscripts are both harder to find, as there were less written as Christianity was not as widespread, and because manuscripts deteriorate and get lost due to damage more over time. We know the 1CE manuscripts, which no one has, were written in uncial as ALL the writings from the bible in Greek which are extra-biblical are written as such, none are written in ‘miniscule’, so my justification is precise.

(1 Cor 8:4-6) “..THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE." FOR EVEN IF THERE ARE SO-CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH (AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY "GODS" AND MANY "LORDS"), YET FOR US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER..”

I have made no error in calling Jesus GOD and the Father GOD, me applying the term ‘GOD’ to both Jesus and the Father no more is an oxymoron than me highlighting Satan is called “THE GOD” (2 Cor 4:4), Moses was called GOD (Exo 7:1), Angels were called GODS (Ps 8:5), or a human King was called GOD (Ps 45:6), the term GOD being applied to them does not necessitate equalling the ‘one God’ the Father.
Then just ignore the fact that Jesus and the Father are one.

Oh wait
You guys already do that.

Then you think you proved something by referencing "god" in the bible.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,192
113
As someone else highlighted, not believing that Jesus is the 'one God' does not mean you are not Christian.
Jesus did make very clear that if one does not know Who He is, they would die
in their sins, and He was specifically addressing those who denied His deity.


If one was to die in their sins, it means they are not saved.
If one is not saved, how could one call them self Christian?


They will get to the end and be told, "I do not know you."
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
Hi NWL! You said God being all was in comparison to false gods etc. What does that have to do with anything? How does that change the fact that God created all alone and by Himself? Moreover, what difference does it make even if angels were with Him, He still created all alone including the angels.
Isaiah 44:26 states "I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?", here God is expressing that he was alone when making the heavens and the earth, by his statement "who was with me" he was claiming no one was there, so I'll ask you this, were the angels "with God" when making the earth?

What does that mean that Jesus was a "passive" creator according to John 1:3? Your the ones that inserted in John 1:1 that Jesus was "a god." Yet Isaiah 45:5 says, "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides ME THERE IS NO GOD." Why would that not include Jesus who you say is "a god?" Is He a true god or a false god?
This idea that there are 'false gods' does not exist in the bible as you imply, where in the bible does it use the term 'false gods'? It mentions that there are 'gods' who are not the 'true God' but it does not mention false gods. Also, if you're saying anyone who is not the one God is a false god then it begs the question, was Moses a false God in Exo 7:1, are angels false Gods in Ps 8:5, was the Israelite King a false god in Ps 45:6? I'll await your answers. To answer your question, Jesus was no more a false god then Moses, angels, or the Israelite King are false gods when they are called gods despite not being the 'one God'.

You also brought up the two prepositions "by" and "through." That word "by" denotes "Origin." The word "through" denotes the manner in which something is achieved. And yes, I am well aware that the words can be used interchangeable. So at John 1:3, (and this is where context is extremely important), John says "All things came into being by Him, (that means all things without exception), and apart from Him, (that means without Him) NOTHING came into being that has come into being."

Here again, "nothing" means "nothing." I am not "isolating" John 1:3, it's backed up by Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10 and at Revelation 3:14 along with other verses. Colossians 1:16 is also "all inclusive." "For by Him ALL things were created etc. Again, no exceptions. And to make this asinine statement, "as can be seen, according to v18 Jesus has the first place in "all things", so is Jesus the first murder, the first homosexual, the first lier?" Your referring to Colossians 1:18 is Biblical ignorance at the highest level.
You ignored the reasoning I gave in relation to Hebrews 2:8 which would have answered the points you raised here if you acknowledged it, in the verse it expresses 'God subject all things under man, and left NOTHING NOT subject to him', using your reasoning that 'nothing' means absolutely 'nothing', does it mean that God and the angels were subjected to man? If not, then does 'nothing' here mean absolutely 'nothing'?

And to make this asinine statement, "as can be seen, according to v18 Jesus has the first place in "all things", so is Jesus the first murder, the first homosexual, the first lier?" Your referring to Colossians 1:18 is Biblical ignorance at the highest level
How have I displayed ignorance friend? I made a claim, namely, phrases that seem definite are not always definite, I gave evidence of this by showing Col 1:18 where it states Jesus is first in "all things", I highlighted 'all things' here can not literally mean all things. It seems you have neither denied nor confirmed whether or not you agree with what I tried to express here, but can only mock without expressing how I'm ignorant, so I'll simply ask you, when it states Jesus is "first in all things" in Col 1:18, does the "all things" literally mean 'all things' as in 'every single thing'? If so, then is Jesus the first murder? I ask this because as understanding the statement that Jesus is "first in all things" 100% literally would mean Jesus is 'first' in every..single..thing, since that is what the word "all things" implies, again, this is a thought experiment.

At John 11:1-4 Jesus rasied Lazarus from the dead four days after his entombment. So if we use your argument Jesus cannot be the first-born from the dead. He cannot be the first murderer etc. So what does Colossians 1:18 mean? It means that Jesus Christ was the first-born from the dead in a permanent way.
I have nowhere expressed I do not believe Jesus is not the firstborn from the dead, I said what I said to show the 'all things' in Col 1:18 didn't literally mean 'every single thing', it was a thought excersise, please re-read my previous post to try and understand what I meant.

Finally, you said the insertion of the word "other" makes it easy for the reader to understand things. Really! How does saying Jesus created all "other" things make it easy reading? Your adding words to the word of God and instead of making it "easy" your actually making things more complicated in order to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. That my friend is your organizations pland and purpose. As Jesus said, "I will build My church, and the gates of hell shal not prevail." Matther 16:17-19. PS: If your not here to defend the NWT or for any other reason, why are you here?
"I" did not insert the word 'other' into the NWT, the translators of the NWT did, it is not my bible, it is one of the many bibles I use.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
All Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century were written in either ‘uncial’ or ‘majuscule’, that meant all letters were written with all capital letters, this is irrefutable, to deny this would be to deny all Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century. Manuscripts written in ‘miniscule’ only partially coming around in the 6th century and were not fully developed until the 9th century. The bulk of the Greek manuscripts are newer copies, and thus written in ‘miniscule’ as earlier manuscripts are both harder to find, as there were less written as Christianity was not as widespread, and because manuscripts deteriorate and get lost due to damage more over time. We know the 1CE manuscripts, which no one has, were written in uncial as ALL the writings from the bible in Greek which are extra-biblical are written as such, none are written in ‘miniscule’, so my justification is precise.

(1 Cor 8:4-6) “..THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE." FOR EVEN IF THERE ARE SO-CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH (AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY "GODS" AND MANY "LORDS"), YET FOR US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER..”

I have made no error in calling Jesus GOD and the Father GOD, me applying the term ‘GOD’ to both Jesus and the Father no more is an oxymoron than me highlighting Satan is called “THE GOD” (2 Cor 4:4), Moses was called GOD (Exo 7:1), Angels were called GODS (Ps 8:5), or a human King was called GOD (Ps 45:6), the term GOD being applied to them does not necessitate equalling the ‘one God’ the Father.
1 John 5:7
King James Version
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
Jesus did make very clear that if one does not know Who He is, they would die
in their sins, and He was specifically addressing those who denied His deity.


If one was to die in their sins, it means they are not saved.
If one is not saved, how could one call them self Christian?


They will get to the end and be told, "I do not know you."
He was speaking of his messiahship when he stated this, it was not in regards to his deity, he used the same phrase he used in John 4:25,26 when claiming to be the Messiah.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
1 John 5:7
King James Version
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The scholarly community refuses to accept this verse as original and agrees that it is spurious, this is well documented. What you just posted is a perversion of God's word, most Christians, even the ones on here probably agree with me on this one.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,192
113
Isaiah 44:26 states "I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?", here God is expressing that he was alone when making the heavens and the earth, by his statement "who was with me" he was claiming no one was there, so I'll ask you this, were the angels "with God" when making the earth?
We are not told where the angels were when God was creating the heavens and the earth. We are told, however, that the Word was with God from the beginning, the beginning being the beginning of the universe, since God is eternally self existent and has neither beginning nor end. The Word was with God before creation. Through the Word, all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. The Word is identified as Jesus Christ, Who took on flesh to dwell among us, and give His life as a ransom for many as the spotless Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. All power and authority has been given to Him. In God asking, "Who was with me me when... ?" is a question to the effect of stating that mere human beings were not present at the time of creation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,192
113
He was speaking of his messiahship when he stated this, it was not in regards to his deity, he used the same phrase he used in John 4:25,26 when claiming to be the Messiah.
Read John chapter 8. It is not His being the Messiah Jesus is speaking of.

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

“You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you
that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

"I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father."


Jesus said to them, “
If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
We are not told where the angels were when God was creating the heavens and the earth. We are told, however, that the Word was with God from the beginning, the beginning being the beginning of the universe, since God is eternally self existent and has neither beginning nor end. The Word was with God before creation. Through the Word, all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. The Word is identified as Jesus Christ, Who took on flesh to dwell among us, and give His life as a ransom for many as the spotless Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. All power and authority has been given to Him. In God asking, "Who was with me me when... ?" is a question to the effect of stating that mere human beings were not present at the time of creation.
When John mentioned the 'beginning' in John 1:1 he was referring to the 'beginning' mentioned in Gen 1:1, and the 'beginning' mentioned in Genesis referred to the creation of the earth and its heaven, it was not referring to the creation of the entire universe. So the word/Jesus being with God in the beginning in John 1:1 was talking about the beginning of the creation of the earth. This isn't to say that Jesus was not with God at the beginning of creation as revealed in other scripture.
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
Read John chapter 8. It is not His being the Messiah Jesus is speaking of.

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

“You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you
that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”


"I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father."

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
As I expressed in my previous post, Jesus using the expression "I am he" (ego emi) was either an expression of him confirming messiahship, as he did in John 4:25,26, or confirming a particular point to a specific topic of discussion. Nothing you posted goes contrary to what, I've again, just said.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
29,192
113
When John mentioned the 'beginning' in John 1:1 he was referring to the 'beginning' mentioned in Gen 1:1, and the 'beginning' mentioned in Genesis referred to the creation of the earth and its heaven, it was not referring to the creation of the entire universe. So the word/Jesus being with God in the beginning in John 1:1 was talking about the beginning of the creation of the earth. This isn't to say that Jesus was not with God at the beginning of creation as revealed in other scripture.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens = plural.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
All Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century were written in either ‘uncial’ or ‘majuscule’, that meant all letters were written with all capital letters, this is irrefutable, to deny this would be to deny all Greek manuscripts prior to the 6th century. Manuscripts written in ‘miniscule’ only partially coming around in the 6th century and were not fully developed until the 9th century. The bulk of the Greek manuscripts are newer copies, and thus written in ‘miniscule’ as earlier manuscripts are both harder to find, as there were less written as Christianity was not as widespread, and because manuscripts deteriorate and get lost due to damage more over time. We know the 1CE manuscripts, which no one has, were written in uncial as ALL the writings from the bible in Greek which are extra-biblical are written as such, none are written in ‘miniscule’, so my justification is precise.

(1 Cor 8:4-6) “..THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE." FOR EVEN IF THERE ARE SO-CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH (AS INDEED THERE ARE MANY "GODS" AND MANY "LORDS"), YET FOR US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER..”

I have made no error in calling Jesus GOD and the Father GOD, me applying the term ‘GOD’ to both Jesus and the Father no more is an oxymoron than me highlighting Satan is called “THE GOD” (2 Cor 4:4), Moses was called GOD (Exo 7:1), Angels were called GODS (Ps 8:5), or a human King was called GOD (Ps 45:6), the term GOD being applied to them does not necessitate equalling the ‘one God’ the Father.
In that case heaven is ok with Jesus recieving worship.

Which can only mean Jesus is co equal with the Father.
A shared throne
 
Jul 1, 2019
31
2
8
Another watchtower ambassador to shore up new world false mess.
Call me whatever you like, I expect abuse as a Christian even from "so called Christians".

Rather than hurl abuse at JW (as youve been doing in your posts) why not try and explain why what NWL is writing is incorrect, and when I say explain I mean not throwing out arbitrary phrases and scriptures as you've been been doing in a child like manner, i mean ACTUALLY explain why his arguments, along with the scriptures he cites with them are false according to his understanding.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
As I expressed in my previous post, Jesus using the expression "I am he" (ego emi) was either an expression of him confirming messiahship, as he did in John 4:25,26, or confirming a particular point to a specific topic of discussion. Nothing you posted goes contrary to what, I've again, just said.
Jesus said "destroy this temple and in 3 days I WILL RAISE IT UP AGAIN"

Then we read " Jesus whom God raised from the dead"
 

NWL

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens = plural.
The Greek word there is 'haššāmayim' (STRONGS 8064: shamayim) and can either be translated heavens or heaven in Genesis 1:1, some translations have heavens, whilst others have heaven, it really doesn't matter which one. What you've said doesn't change anything I've said, the Genesis account is still talking about the creation of the heavens and the earth, or the earth and the heaven.

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Berean Study Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New King James Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Contemporary English Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

JPS Tanakh 1917
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Call me whatever you like, I expect abuse as a Christian even from "so called Christians".

Rather than hurl abuse at JW (as youve been doing in your posts) why not try and explain why what NWL is writing is incorrect, and when I say explain I mean not throwing out arbitrary phrases and scriptures as you've been been doing in a child like manner, i mean ACTUALLY explain why his arguments, along with the scriptures he cites with them are false according to his understanding.
Lol
"Ambassador " hurt your feelings?
Too funny