The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today

[Guojing]

True even in the nt signs and wonders were used by Jesus to unbelievers. But I never had anyone to teach me and I still wish I had a teacher in my life but God has been a great teacher for me.

Yep, John 10 had a clear statement by Jesus there. Even if the Jews could not believe that he is the son of God, by faith, they should at least believe in the signs he did.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[Blain]

Which Bible Character Am I? - AllTheTests.com
www.allthetests.com/quiz13/quiz/1111038138



The other one won't work. Not sure why.

I got
For 30% you are: So which Bible character are you the most like? You are Jacob! You were always Mum's favourite growing up, and you could pretty much get whatever you wanted from Dad. You have a knack for getting on well with people. Sometimes you're not entirely honest, though....
21% of 71164 quiz participants had this profile!

Your score wasn't clear.

You could also get this result:
For 30% you are: So which Bible character are you the most like? You are Barnabas! You just wish everyone could get along. You seem to spend your life trying to mend other people's problems. Everyone likes you. But sometimes, you feel like a bit of a doormat...

I think barnabus sounds like me perfectly

 

[Funkus]

Some of the manifestations that are claimed to be 'of God' are of the enemy, the book 'strange fire' i think it's called discusses this

 

[Guojing]

True even in the nt signs and wonders were used by Jesus to unbelievers. But I never had anyone to teach me and I still wish I had a teacher in my life but God has been a great teacher for me.

The other point about tongues as a sign to unbeliever is that is also meant to be taken in a negative tone.

In 1 Corinthians 14:21, Paul quotes Isaiah 28:11-12. In Isaiah’s context, the Israelites (the northern kingdom) were so hard-hearted and stubborn in breaching their covenant with God that God sent a judgment upon them (the Assyrian nation – who spoke in the Akkadian language – a foreign language that Israel would not have known) by bringing them into Assyrian captivity.

Paul’s application from Isaiah: just as the northern kingdom of Israel heard tongues as a sign of judgment, so it would be also to unbelievers in the first century A.D. that God would render His judgement upon them if they did not obey the gospel of grace.

 

[jaybird88]

I asked you a question directly related to the post to which it originally responded. You did not answer it then, and you still have not answered it. I'll maintain my physical distance and not hold your hand through this simple exercise.

i would be happy to answer but you gotta tell me what your asking, i asked you to clarify wayyyyyyyyyyyy back on p 141 and many times sense then, i dont get what your deal is.

 

[jaybird88]

LOL, You're the one who mentioned procedure first in 158 .. And how do you suppose the prophets who wrote the Bible heard God in the Spirit ? Do you think it was exact and word for word or were they hearing babble .. I think they heard with their Spirit like an interpreter of tongues hears word for word in their spiritual ears, no mistakes .. As for your repeated same questions , you answer them your way anyway ..

so now your going to input the angel language into the text every time someone speaks to the Most High? this would mean no one can even pray to the Father unless they have the divine gift of the angel language. there is no way you could be foolish enough to believe such nonsense.

 

[garee]

The other point about tongues as a sign to unbeliever is that is also meant to be taken in a negative tone.

In 1 Corinthians 14:21, Paul quotes Isaiah 28:11-12. In Isaiah’s context, the Israelites (the northern kingdom) were so hard-hearted and stubborn in breaching their covenant with God that God sent a judgment upon them (the Assyrian nation – who spoke in the Akkadian language – a foreign language that Israel would not have known) by bringing them into Assyrian captivity.

Paul’s application from Isaiah: just as the northern kingdom of Israel heard tongues as a sign of judgment, so it would be also to unbelievers in the first century A.D. that God would render His judgement upon them if they did not obey the gospel of grace.

The reference in 1 Corinthians 14:21 is the fulfillment. He is not speaking of one nation beforehand .But all the nations that heard prophecy. The tongue of God. Its the same promise of Joel .The reformation came

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. All nations hear prophecy . But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

[Nehemiah6]

so now your going to input the angel language into the text every time someone speaks to the Most High? this would mean no one can even pray to the Father unless they have the divine gift of the angel language. there is no way you could be foolish enough to believe such nonsense.

As we can see from this and another thread on tongues, it is indeed a divisive force in Christianity. When Paul mentioned "tongues of angels" it was tongue-in-cheek hyperbole. As we know from the rest of Scripture there is no such thing. The things spoken by angels were always understood by men.

What Paul was really saying is that it does not matter what kind of foreign or unintelligible language you utter. It is all noise when the love of God is absent.

 

[garee]

I think they heard with their Spirit like an interpreter of tongues hears word for word in their spiritual ears, no mistakes .. As for your repeated same questions , you answer them your way anyway ..

like whose interpretation of tongues" Jim Jones of Jones town?

The Bible lovingly commands us to study in order to seek his approval (walk by faith the unseen) and warns of the antichrists .Those who say we need a corrupted men to teach us .

The Holy Spirt is the interpreter .He informs us a to abide in Him as it is written

.Why would we give the honor of his teaching, guiding, comfort to another if he is the same one who brings to our mind the things he has taught us. ? His name is Jealous for some reason?

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:26-27

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Three is a crowd Two walking together in agreement.

 

[garee]

As we can see from this and another thread on tongues, it is indeed a divisive force in Christianity. When Paul mentioned "tongues of angels" it was tongue-in-cheek hyperbole. As we know from the rest of Scripture there is no such thing. The things spoken by angels were always understood by men.

What Paul was really saying is that it does not matter what kind of foreign or unintelligible language you utter. It is all noise when the love of God is absent.

I would suggest. "tongues of angels". "Prophecy of the messenger". The apostles sent with the word of God. How beautiful are the feet that bring the gospel message

 

[jaybird88]

As we can see from this and another thread on tongues, it is indeed a divisive force in Christianity. When Paul mentioned "tongues of angels" it was tongue-in-cheek hyperbole. As we know from the rest of Scripture there is no such thing. The things spoken by angels were always understood by men.

What Paul was really saying is that it does not matter what kind of foreign or unintelligible language you utter. It is all noise when the love of God is absent.

i agree, angel is just another word for beautiful, we still say it today, the baby is a little angel, lady is an angel from heaven, we dont think they are literally angels. im pretty sure the "tongues of angels" is the only place to suggest tongues could be a language not of this world. and then it snowballs from there, alot of the tongue people see the angel language everytime "spirit" is used.
its pretty clear to me Paul is being symbolic with the phrase and when you read further the passage has nothing to do with any spirit language, the passage is talking about the importance of love.

 

[bojack]

LOL, Angels ? Are you a Roman Catholic ?

so now your going to input the angel language into the text every time someone speaks to the Most High? this would mean no one can even pray to the Father unless they have the divine gift of the angel language. there is no way you could be foolish enough to believe such nonsense.

 

[KJV1611]

Modern tongues have caused a huge division within evangelical Christianity, and division is not from God. It has also resulted in “two-tier” Christianity – those who are presumably “Spirit-filled” (the tongue-speakers) being Tier One, and everyone else (who should go to the back of the bus, since they are not “Spirit-filled”) within Tier Two.

The truth of the matter is that modern tongues are not even biblical tongues. And the only reason the KJV translators used the word “tongues” is because back in the 17th century, that word was interchangeable with “languages”. So if we eliminate “unknown” (since that is not in the Greek text, therefore italicized) and simply say “language” or “languages”, the whole controversy disappears. Indeed, several modern translations do not even use the word “tongues”, and consistently translate glossa or glossais as language or languages.

There is no glossolalia in the New Testament, and that is what is practiced today.
‘Those are the terms we have heard frequently at Charismatic conferences, such as those in New Orleans in 1987, Indianapolis in 1990, and St. Louis in 2000. The tongues that I heard in these conferences were not languages of any sort but merely repetitious mumblings that anyone could imitate. Larry Lea’s “tongues” at Indianapolis in 1990 went like this: “Bubblyida bubblyida hallelujah bubblyida hallabubbly shallabubblyida kolabubblyida glooooory hallelujah bubblyida.” I wrote that down as he was saying it and later checked it against the tape. Nancy Kellar, a Roman Catholic nun who was on the executive committee of the St. Louis meeting in 2000, spoke in “tongues” on Thursday evening of the conference. Her tongues were a repetition of “shananaa leea, shananaa higha, shananaa nanaa, shananaa leea…” ‘
https://www.wayoflife.org/database/pentecostaltongues.html

But no one is speaking unlearned foreign languages supernaturally today (as even the Charismatics will tell you). It would be fantastic for missionaries from the USA to go to Japan (for example) and simply start speaking Japanese fluently and supernaturally. Instead they must spend months and years learning the language, and being only rudimentary speakers after all that.

However, when you study Acts chapter 2, there are at least fifteen foreign languages or dialects listed, and that is when tongues were manifested on the day of Pentecost. Simple Galileans (who spoke only Aramaic) were suddenly speaking Persian or Arabic as though they were native speakers! And the native speakers heard their words and understood everything perfectly.

When we come to 1 Corinthians 14, it should be evident that it is there for the correction of the Christians at Corinth. They were abusing tongues, so Paul had to straighten them out. What does Paul say? “There is no reason to believe that the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is any different from that mentioned in the book of Acts. In both places the tongues involved speaking in earthly languages that one had never learned.” [Ibid]

1. Focus on prophecy, not on tongues, but make agape love your primary goal. (vv 1-6)

2. Speaking within the church should be spiritually meaningful (vv 7-12)

3. There must be interpretation whenever tongues are spoken (vv 13-17)

4. Paul would rather speak 5 intelligible words than 10,000 words in tongues (vv 18-19)

5. Focusing on tongues is childish, and if everyone spoke in tongues at the same time, visitors would think they are all mad (vv 20-23)

6. Prophecy is extremely profitable for many reasons (vv 24-26)

7. Tongues (with interpreters) are limited to two or three speakers at the most (vv 27-28)

8. Prophecies are also limited to two or three speakers (vv 29-33)

9. Women are to maintain silence within the churches (vv 34-38)

10. Closing comments – everything to be done decently and in order (vv 39-40)

What an idiotic statement! Get rid of “unknown” and it is impossible to understand what tongues are.

An unknown tongue has absolutely nothing to do with spoken languages duh, that’s why it’s called an unknown tongue, nobody knows that tongue because it DOES NOT exist as a spoken language.

You should apologize for making this ridiculous thread and admit that you know absolutely nothing about speaking in tongues. If you do that and believe EVERY SINGLE WORD in your bible, God will show you exactly what speaking in tongues is and then you can actually do it yourself.

Don’t encourage people to NOT BELIEVE THEIR BIBLES! If your doctrine requires CHANGING THE BIBLE then your doctrine is WRONG. SMH in disgust!

 

[billabong]

What an idiotic statement! Get rid of “unknown” and it is impossible to understand what tongues are.

An unknown tongue has absolutely nothing to do with spoken languages duh, that’s why it’s called an unknown tongue, nobody knows that tongue because it DOES NOT exist as a spoken language.

You should apologize for making this ridiculous thread and admit that you know absolutely nothing about speaking in tongues. If you do that and believe EVERY SINGLE WORD in your bible, God will show you exactly what speaking in tongues is and then you can actually do it yourself.

Don’t encourage people to NOT BELIEVE THEIR BIBLES! If your doctrine requires CHANGING THE BIBLE then your doctrine is WRONG. SMH in disgust!

It seem to me that those that speak this "unknown tongue" in the congregations, they are considered barbarians to Paul.
I Corinthians 14:11

"Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, (If I don't know what someone is saying) I shall be unto him that speaketh (like) a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me."

Clearly this mindless babble is a subtle rebuke to the radical Corinthians as it has no place in the congregation unless it can somehow be interpreted.

This "unknown tongue" is not forbidden
I Corinthians 14:13
"Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."


I Corinthians 14:3,4


"But he that prophesieth (or speaketh forth the Word as a gifted individual) speaketh unto men to edification, (lift them up) and exhortation, and comfort." Now verse 4,

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth (and speaks forth the Word of God) edifieth the church."


When someone claims to have had a tongues experience, according to the Bible, who are they edifying? Themselves. It's an ego trip when practiced inappropriately.

 

[KJV1611]

It seem to me that those that speak this "unknown tongue" in the congregations, they are considered barbarians to Paul.
I Corinthians 14:11

"Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, (If I don't know what someone is saying) I shall be unto him that speaketh (like) a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me."

Clearly this mindless babble is a subtle rebuke to the radical Corinthians as it has no place in the congregation unless it can somehow be interpreted.

This "unknown tongue" is not forbidden
I Corinthians 14:13
"Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."


I Corinthians 14:3,4


"But he that prophesieth (or speaketh forth the Word as a gifted individual) speaketh unto men to edification, (lift them up) and exhortation, and comfort." Now verse 4,

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth (and speaks forth the Word of God) edifieth the church."


When someone claims to have had a tongues experience, according to the Bible, who are they edifying? Themselves. It's an ego trip when practiced inappropriately.

Tongues have nothing to do mindless babble, thats the charismatic/pentecostal perversion of tongues. The Bible is written in the unknown tongue from cover to cover.

Tongues is the language of symbolism. It’s an unknown tongue because it isn’t a spoken language, it’s a communication system where the message is hidden from one group but revealed to another group by concealing the message in symbols.

 

[garee]

i agree, angel is just another word for beautiful, we still say it today, the baby is a little angel, lady is an angel from heaven, we dont think they are literally angels. im pretty sure the "tongues of angels" is the only place to suggest tongues could be a language not of this world. and then it snowballs from there, alot of the tongue people see the angel language everytime "spirit" is used.
its pretty clear to me Paul is being symbolic with the phrase and when you read further the passage has nothing to do with any spirit language, the passage is talking about the importance of love.

"Angel" is another word for "messenger" They as apostles (sent ones) bring prophecy "tongues" the messages from God .

No hidden language.

 

[garee]

Tongues have nothing to do mindless babble, thats the charismatic/pentecostal perversion of tongues. The Bible is written in the unknown tongue from cover to cover.

Tongues is the language of symbolism. It’s an unknown tongue because it isn’t a spoken language, it’s a communication system where the message is hidden from one group but revealed to another group by concealing the message in symbols.

Tongues is simply prophecy the source of Christian faith. Christ working in us. . Prophecy as parables provides a unknown, unseen faith. Concealing the message of the gospel from those who do not rightly divide the parables

The 20/20 prescription must be applied if we desire to walk by faith. Rightly dividing the parables. The tongue of God.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[KJV1611]

"Angel" is another word for "messenger" They as apostles (sent ones) bring prophecy "tongues" the messages from God .

No hidden language.

Tongues is the word of God but tongues conceals the word of God so that only his people get the message. That’s why when people hear others speaking in tongues, they think they’re crazy.

 

[KJV1611]

Tongues is simply prophecy the source of Christian faith. Christ working in us. . Prophecy as parables provides a unknown, unseen faith. Concealing the message of the gospel from those who do not rightly divide the parables

The 20/20 prescription must be applied if we desire to walk by faith. Rightly dividing the parables. The tongue of God.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The words of the Bible are easily seen by the world but the symbolism hidden in those words is the unseen words. The letter killers, but the spirit give them life.

 

[Truth7t7]

Tongues is never called a gift in the Bible. It is one of the nine manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Because every Christian has the gift of the Holy Spirit, every Christian has the ability to speak in tongues whether he knows it or not, believes it or not. Even Nehemiah.


Amen!

Your claim is false

1 Corinthians 12:1-10KJV
12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: