The Second Coming of Christ is for JUDGMENT

[RevelationMan]

All those who have put their faith in Christ (before of after His Second Coming) and been saved by grace, are also the elect of God. Election and predestination are NOT for salvation but for perfection and glorification (Rom 8:29,30):

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified...
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Pet 1:2)

what do you mean here because i don't see how this answers my question? what about the passages that indicate the church are the elect as well. If we are the elect then the passages in Matthew about gathering us together seems to be after the tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 - Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Peter 1:10 - Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Nehemiah6]

what do you mean here because i don't see how this answers my question? what about the passages that indicate the church are the elect as well.

1. The OT saints are elect.
2. The Church is elect.
3. The Tribulation saints are elect.
4. The redeemed Jews and Gentiles after the Second Coming are elect.
5. ALL who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are elect.

However, Matthew 24:31 refers to item #4 as pertains to the Jews: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (Ezek 36:24)

 

[RevelationMan]

1. The OT saints are elect.
2. The Church is elect.
3. The Tribulation saints are elect.
4. The redeemed Jews and Gentiles after the Second Coming are elect.
5. ALL who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are elect.

However, Matthew 24:31 refers to item #4 as pertains to the Jews: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (Ezek 36:24)

so why do you say that the elect in Matthew is talking about the redeemed Jews and Gentiles rather than all who are dead and alive in all 5 categories. Is it because the church will already be resurrected and raptured so the only group left is the redeemed Jews and Gentiles?

 

[Nehemiah6]

so why do you say that the elect in Matthew is talking about the redeemed Jews and Gentiles rather than all who are dead and alive in all 5 categories. Is it because the church will already be resurrected and raptured so the only group left is the redeemed Jews and Gentiles?

Correct. All the saints who were resurrected and raptured descend with Christ from Heaven, AFTER which the believing remnant of Israel (the elect) are gathered to Israel by angels. And this would be before the Millennium goes into effect.

 

[garee]

1. The OT saints are elect.
2. The Church is elect.
3. The Tribulation saints are elect.
4. The redeemed Jews and Gentiles after the Second Coming are elect.
5. ALL who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are elect.

However, Matthew 24:31 refers to item #4 as pertains to the Jews: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (Ezek 36:24)

The redeemed Jews and Gentiles began with Abel the first apostle who was martyred . The Jewish thing did not come until later . Taking two gentile nations. Amorites and Hittites and setting them aside to be used in parable up until the reformation. When he cut them off. He is not served by human hands.

Satan fell no longer having the ability to deceive all the nations that they must become a Jew (one nation) .God as the father unseen is the father of a multitude of nations (all)

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

The idea that he will not deceive at all for a literal thousand years . Who will the lies be attributed to if the god of this world disappears?

 

[dodgingstones]

Can't read all that. No need to. When Eastern sky splits n Christ descends

THAT'S IT!!!!

Believe as u wish.... but u better b ready!!!

 

[Kolistus]

This passage does seem to imply a post-trib rapture, but it likely means that this gathering together is after the rapture. In other words we are gathered together twice once with the resurrected saints in heaven (raptured before the tribulation) and then again we are gathered together from heaven (already raptured) at his second coming after the tribulation so that we can come back with him which is what this is referring to.

I would suggest its neither and has nothing to do with the rapture. No resurrection is mentioned

I believe what its talking about is, in the second advent Jesus will gather His elect to Jerusalem.

This concept is also in the OT:

Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

and other places

 

[Truth7t7]

what do you mean here because i don't see how this answers my question? what about the passages that indicate the church are the elect as well. If we are the elect then the passages in Matthew about gathering us together seems to be after the tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 - Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
2 Peter 1:10 - Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Your 100% correct!

The elect seen in Matthew 24:31 is "The Church" and yes this resurrection takes place "Immediately after the tribulation" at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

so why do you say that the elect in Matthew is talking about the redeemed Jews and Gentiles rather than all who are dead and alive in all 5 categories. Is it because the church will already be resurrected and raptured so the only group left is the redeemed Jews and Gentiles?

They dont want to acknowledge the "Elect Church" in Matthew 24:31 because this clearly shows their pre-trib rapture is false, as the Church is present on earth after the tribulation.

They bend and twist Scripture falsely applying "Elect" to Jews on earth, and falsely teach the Church is gone raptured away to heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I would suggest its neither and has nothing to do with the rapture. No resurrection is mentioned
I believe what its talking about is, in the second advent Jesus will gather His elect to Jerusalem.
This concept is also in the OT:
Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
and other places

PTL, someone gets it! lol

YES!


[Matt24:29-31 = Isaiah 27:12-13 ! Yes! (NOT "our Rapture"! Correct!) Isa27:12 "gather ye ONE *BY* ONE, O ye children OF ISRAEL..." (NOT *AS ONE* 1Th4:17--like WE will be!)]

 

[Kolistus]

Your Claims Are False And "Error"

God's words below silences your "Error"!

As the words "CLEARLY STATE"!

"They That Are Christ At His Coming. Then Cometh The End"

There isn't a 1,000 year kingdom on earth between verse 23-24 below, who you trying to fool, "Yourself"

1 Corinthians 15:20-26KJV
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There Is No 1,000 Year Kingdom On Earth Here

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

What about Revelation 20?

 

[tourist]

EDIT to add to my post:

...so, yes, Matt24:29-31 is AFTER the trib (at its END--at Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19)... but it is NOT "our Rapture [/SNATCH / caught up-away / harpazo]" which is completely distinct (in every way) from this (including the "destination location").

Haphazard?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Haphazard?

That depends. Are you speaking of the manner of my postings? or of the manner of our being "harpagēsometha'd"? lol

 

[tourist]

That depends. Are you speaking of the manner of my postings? or of the manner of our being "harpagēsometha'd"? lol

Just an amusing reference to that harpo word.

 

[Truth7t7]

What about Revelation 20?

There isn't a literal kingdom on earth, with mortal humans seen in Revelation 20:1-6?

Millennialism is just another false teaching of man.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ May I direct the readers' attention to Post #55 again:

https://christianchat.com/threads/the-second-coming-of-christ-is-for-judgment.192812/post-4285284

[ALL ABOUT THAT SUBJECT ^ -->"the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth]


Up until the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING IT), He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING about the rapture

(...and had only briefly alluded to "I will build My church" but not elaborated).

 

[garee]

^ May I direct the readers' attention to Post #55 again:

https://christianchat.com/threads/the-second-coming-of-christ-is-for-judgment.192812/post-4285284

[ALL ABOUT THAT SUBJECT ^ -->"the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth]


Up until the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING IT), He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING about the rapture

(...and had only briefly alluded to "I will build My church" but not elaborated).

The Holy Spirit never left.

We are the temple not made with humans hands .

What are those waiting a thousand years for a different kind of Spirit of Christ?

The Amil position works the best .Thousand years a unknown. the signified understand just like the rest of the metaphors used in that parable. (Revelation 20)

 

[John146]

There isn't a literal kingdom on earth, with mortal humans seen in Revelation 20:1-6?

Millennialism is just another false teaching of man.

Ok then, who are the nations, at the end of the thousand years, that are deceived by Satan and are gathered upon the breath of the earth and surround Jerusalem for battle?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Holy Spirit never left.

The phrase "Holy Spirit left" is a misunderstanding [based on poor "rumors"] that this is what anyone is saying. It is not.

The Holy Spirit doesn't "leave" at the time of "our Rapture". His "restraining at present" stops. And the consequences/aftermath unfolds upon the earth, following that point. Over a specific, limited future period of time, involving JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth.

Again, it's not that He "LEAVES," see.

Many people will "come to faith" FOLLOWING "our Rapture/'THE Departure'" IN/DURING the trib years (and sadly, as we know, many will not).

We are the temple not made with humans hands .

Paul never uses the "definite article ['the']" when referring to the Church which is His body as "temple".

Yet, at least 2 places in Scripture, that speaks of that future, specific, limited time period, where the phrase "THE temple of God" is used... (but, again, that is referring to a specific time-period FOLLOWING the departure OF US in our Rapture--And we should ask ourselves, then, what is the problem with something being called "THE temple of God" on the earth FOLLOWING our EXIT from the earth?? ['temple'... not 'THE temple']); and in the second place it's mentioned, makes it abundantly clear that "THE TEMPLE of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN" are two distinct entities.

What are those waiting a thousand years for a different kind of Spirit of Christ?

Again, He's not "leaving" (that's not exactly accurate!) Stop repeating that error. Put it clearly in your notes at the top of your screen, so as to not inadvertently repeat something that is not actual. His role will change from "restraining at present" (and permanently "SEALing" the Church which is His body [we'll be IN HEAVEN at that point!], etc... but when you read John 7:39 and Ephesians 1:13-14 "UNTIL" and Ephesians 4:30 "UNTO," you can see that there is no problem with the idea that His role will change from "restraining AT PRESENT" (etc), to that which will be His role on the earth then [FUTURE]).

So your question, here, makes no sense to me.

Take note again what Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 says (about Israel in that future trib years period of time and following). The trib is for the purpose of bringing Israel into the New Covenant. PPL tend to "READ THEMSELVES INTO" passages meant to/for/about THEM/ISRAEL (usurping Israel's role and place and blessings--Don't do that. )

The Amil position works the best .Thousand years a unknown. the signified understand just like the rest of the metaphors used in that parable. (Revelation 20)

At the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had said "no man knows [not even Himself, at the time]"; "PERFECT indicative".
Later, AFTER His "resurrection/ascension," He supplied FURTHER REVELATION in the [later] 95ad "[The] Revelation," disclosing a great many details regarding TIMING-markers, and DAY-AMOUNT indicators, and various other "connections" of that sort...

...where Revelation 1:1 says, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]..." so that "further information" *on that very Subject* HAS BEEN DISCLOSED some nearly 60-yrs after His resurrection/ascension (the Subject of Matt24:36 and related passages which had said "no one knows [PERFECT indicative]" NOT that no one WOULD EVER KNOW / CAN EVER KNOW / WILL EVER KNOW / [all are] FORBIDDEN TO KNOW. NO! Jesus now KNOWS [ever since His resurrection/ascension] and has provided FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT very thing!

Some day, when there are those who will find themselves IN the trib, and many will have come to faith (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"), people will have the ability to come to "understand" that very thing, IF they will HEED HIS WORD [and/or listen to those bringing it]. Some will, but again (as we know from what Scripture tells of of that future, specific, limited time period leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth Rev19), many will not.

 

[biker]

I am amazed how the Thessalonians asked Paul what happens to the DEAD who are Believers?

Paul answers beginning in verse 13:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


And from Paul explaining to the Thessalonians how they will be with their DEAD ONES again...somehow and ignorantly...turned into a False Doctrine of Pre-Trib Rapture.

It's as if no one is reading verses 13-15, but jumping all the way to verses 16-17 in order to take Paul's words out of context. It just baffles me to ignore, specifically verse 13 where Paul is clearly answering their question about the DEAD, and create a whole False Doctrine by ignoring the fact that Paul is discussing verse 13.