"Antichrist": Broad Deception By Narrow Definition
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That's good! Did you know he said this?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
Meaning the only way that we can get to the Father is through Him (Jesus). Granted there is One God, but the true God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of Israel. Not all religions believe in the same God, or the Word He gave us.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
Meaning the only way that we can get to the Father is through Him (Jesus). Granted there is One God, but the true God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of Israel. Not all religions believe in the same God, or the Word He gave us.
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Nice! So did you tell Him about Jesus? Not only was He a "Great Prophet," but the Son of God? That's the good thing about the Old Testament. It prophecy's about Jesus. Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 53; Zechariah 12:10, and much much more. It's pretty cool 
Why don't you like the Old Testament?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
Why don't you like the Old Testament?In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
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I hear ya, that's good! The main thing is sharing the Good News of Jesus in love and what He did on the cross for our sins . Not only that, but taking our punishment on Himself, so we wouldn't have to suffer the wrath of God and be thrown in the lake of fire for eternity. Righteous Judgement. If we've broken His commandments, then we are guilty. The wages of sin is death. It's scary, but the Truth!
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed. (John 3:16)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Don't you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't delude yourselves—people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
(10) who steal, who are greedy, who get drunk, who assail people with contemptuous language, who rob—none of them will share in the Kingdom of God.
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars—their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Granted we should Repent (turn away) from our sins, and Trust in Jesus.
Acts 3:19-20
(19) "Therefore, repent and turn to God, so that your sins may be erased;
(20) so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord's presence; and he may send the Messiah appointed in advance for you, that is, Yeshua.
By the Grace of God we are Saved through Jesus. Yet, because of Grace do we continue on in sin?
Romans 6:1-4
(1) So then, are we to say, "Let's keep on sinning, so that there can be more grace"?
(2) Heaven forbid! How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?
(3) Don't you know that those of us who have been immersed into the Messiah Yeshua have been immersed into his death?
(4) Through immersion into his death we were buried with him; so that just as, through the glory of the Father, the Messiah was raised from the dead, likewise we too might live a new life.
Are we good? Jesus even said:
Matthew 19:16-17
(16) Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
(17) So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
By no means does legalism work, but the law does make us aware of our sin nature:
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)
So I totally agree with sharing the Good News of what Jesus did on the cross. Except, I think as believers we need to be careful with deception from other false religions that are set apart from Jesus. Which in reality separates us from our Father/God. We are all united through Christ, not religion, or false religions. There's no other way. Jesus even warned against deception:
And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. (Matthew 24:4)
Thankful for the dialogue.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (1 Timothy 6:12)
. Not only that, but taking our punishment on Himself, so we wouldn't have to suffer the wrath of God and be thrown in the lake of fire for eternity. Righteous Judgement. If we've broken His commandments, then we are guilty. The wages of sin is death. It's scary, but the Truth! "For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed. (John 3:16)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Don't you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't delude yourselves—people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
(10) who steal, who are greedy, who get drunk, who assail people with contemptuous language, who rob—none of them will share in the Kingdom of God.
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars—their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Granted we should Repent (turn away) from our sins, and Trust in Jesus.
Acts 3:19-20
(19) "Therefore, repent and turn to God, so that your sins may be erased;
(20) so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord's presence; and he may send the Messiah appointed in advance for you, that is, Yeshua.
By the Grace of God we are Saved through Jesus. Yet, because of Grace do we continue on in sin?
Romans 6:1-4
(1) So then, are we to say, "Let's keep on sinning, so that there can be more grace"?
(2) Heaven forbid! How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?
(3) Don't you know that those of us who have been immersed into the Messiah Yeshua have been immersed into his death?
(4) Through immersion into his death we were buried with him; so that just as, through the glory of the Father, the Messiah was raised from the dead, likewise we too might live a new life.
Are we good? Jesus even said:
Matthew 19:16-17
(16) Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
(17) So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
By no means does legalism work, but the law does make us aware of our sin nature:
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)
So I totally agree with sharing the Good News of what Jesus did on the cross. Except, I think as believers we need to be careful with deception from other false religions that are set apart from Jesus. Which in reality separates us from our Father/God. We are all united through Christ, not religion, or false religions. There's no other way. Jesus even warned against deception:
And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. (Matthew 24:4)
Thankful for the dialogue.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (1 Timothy 6:12)
It already has happened and has been around for thousands of years. Its known today as Mysticism in which believers
move beyond the literal meaning of text and human mediation and seek union with God directly. All the world religions
have a branch of this form of worship including Christianity. Before anyone jumps on me I am not promoting it just saying.
move beyond the literal meaning of text and human mediation and seek union with God directly. All the world religions
have a branch of this form of worship including Christianity. Before anyone jumps on me I am not promoting it just saying.
R
I hear ya, that's good! The main thing is sharing the Good News of Jesus in love and what He did on the cross for our sins . Not only that, but taking our punishment on Himself, so we wouldn't have to suffer the wrath of God and be thrown in the lake of fire for eternity. Righteous Judgement. If we've broken His commandments, then we are guilty. The wages of sin is death. It's scary, but the Truth!
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed. (John 3:16)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Don't you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't delude yourselves—people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
(10) who steal, who are greedy, who get drunk, who assail people with contemptuous language, who rob—none of them will share in the Kingdom of God.
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars—their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Granted we should Repent (turn away) from our sins, and Trust in Jesus.
Acts 3:19-20
(19) "Therefore, repent and turn to God, so that your sins may be erased;
(20) so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord's presence; and he may send the Messiah appointed in advance for you, that is, Yeshua.
By the Grace of God we are Saved through Jesus. Yet, because of Grace do we continue on in sin?
Romans 6:1-4
(1) So then, are we to say, "Let's keep on sinning, so that there can be more grace"?
(2) Heaven forbid! How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?
(3) Don't you know that those of us who have been immersed into the Messiah Yeshua have been immersed into his death?
(4) Through immersion into his death we were buried with him; so that just as, through the glory of the Father, the Messiah was raised from the dead, likewise we too might live a new life.
Are we good? Jesus even said:
Matthew 19:16-17
(16) Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
(17) So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
By no means does legalism work, but the law does make us aware of our sin nature:
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)
So I totally agree with sharing the Good News of what Jesus did on the cross. Except, I think as believers we need to be careful with deception from other false religions that are set apart from Jesus. Which in reality separates us from our Father/God. We are all united through Christ, not religion, or false religions. There's no other way. Jesus even warned against deception:
And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. (Matthew 24:4)
Thankful for the dialogue.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (1 Timothy 6:12)
. Not only that, but taking our punishment on Himself, so we wouldn't have to suffer the wrath of God and be thrown in the lake of fire for eternity. Righteous Judgement. If we've broken His commandments, then we are guilty. The wages of sin is death. It's scary, but the Truth! "For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed. (John 3:16)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Don't you know that unrighteous people will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't delude yourselves—people who engage in sex before marriage, who worship idols, who engage in sex after marriage with someone other than their spouse, who engage in active or passive homosexuality,
(10) who steal, who are greedy, who get drunk, who assail people with contemptuous language, who rob—none of them will share in the Kingdom of God.
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars—their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Granted we should Repent (turn away) from our sins, and Trust in Jesus.
Acts 3:19-20
(19) "Therefore, repent and turn to God, so that your sins may be erased;
(20) so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord's presence; and he may send the Messiah appointed in advance for you, that is, Yeshua.
By the Grace of God we are Saved through Jesus. Yet, because of Grace do we continue on in sin?
Romans 6:1-4
(1) So then, are we to say, "Let's keep on sinning, so that there can be more grace"?
(2) Heaven forbid! How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it?
(3) Don't you know that those of us who have been immersed into the Messiah Yeshua have been immersed into his death?
(4) Through immersion into his death we were buried with him; so that just as, through the glory of the Father, the Messiah was raised from the dead, likewise we too might live a new life.
Are we good? Jesus even said:
Matthew 19:16-17
(16) Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
(17) So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
By no means does legalism work, but the law does make us aware of our sin nature:
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)
So I totally agree with sharing the Good News of what Jesus did on the cross. Except, I think as believers we need to be careful with deception from other false religions that are set apart from Jesus. Which in reality separates us from our Father/God. We are all united through Christ, not religion, or false religions. There's no other way. Jesus even warned against deception:
And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. (Matthew 24:4)
Thankful for the dialogue.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (1 Timothy 6:12)
Person A, everything prior to salvation is under the blood. Repent only for sins committed after.
Person B, repent for all sin committed, even prior, as they come to mind.
Hey Reformyourself,
Alrighty! So what's your question? Personally I've been convicted of my past sins and stay under that conviction with my daily life. Understanding the consequences for my actions and wanting to turn away (repent) from that "old nature," and being renewed in Yeshua. Not by flesh, but by spirit.
Ephesians 4:21-24
(21) If you really listened to him and were instructed about him, then you learned that since what is in Yeshua is truth,
(22) then, so far as your former way of life is concerned, you must strip off your old nature, because your old nature is thoroughly rotted by its deceptive desires;
(23) and you must let your spirits and minds keep being renewed,
(24) and clothe yourselves with the new nature created to be godly, which expresses itself in the righteousness and holiness that flow from the truth.
Granted we are saved by Grace, but the Word also said to Repent (turn away) from that old nature and turn to God/Yeshua to lead us, guide us, and direct us, which I listed in the quote you replied to.
Alrighty! So what's your question? Personally I've been convicted of my past sins and stay under that conviction with my daily life. Understanding the consequences for my actions and wanting to turn away (repent) from that "old nature," and being renewed in Yeshua. Not by flesh, but by spirit.
Ephesians 4:21-24
(21) If you really listened to him and were instructed about him, then you learned that since what is in Yeshua is truth,
(22) then, so far as your former way of life is concerned, you must strip off your old nature, because your old nature is thoroughly rotted by its deceptive desires;
(23) and you must let your spirits and minds keep being renewed,
(24) and clothe yourselves with the new nature created to be godly, which expresses itself in the righteousness and holiness that flow from the truth.
Granted we are saved by Grace, but the Word also said to Repent (turn away) from that old nature and turn to God/Yeshua to lead us, guide us, and direct us, which I listed in the quote you replied to.
All sins - past, present, and future - are "under the blood" at the point of salvation. Repentance - the biblical definition - is a one-time thing - turning away from the world and sin to follow after God.
The idea of asking God for forgiveness for sin after salvation is not about keeping or maintaining salvation; rather, it is about restoring the 'fellowship' of your relationship with God. (i.e. - "getting right with God")
It is true that today some folks use the word 'repent' to mean "ask for forgiveness" (a modern definition for/of the word). However, at the very least, every Christian should understand that the biblical definition (which was properly used during the U.S. Civil War [era], but has since changed) is different from the modern often-used definition.
The idea of asking God for forgiveness for sin after salvation is not about keeping or maintaining salvation; rather, it is about restoring the 'fellowship' of your relationship with God. (i.e. - "getting right with God")
It is true that today some folks use the word 'repent' to mean "ask for forgiveness" (a modern definition for/of the word). However, at the very least, every Christian should understand that the biblical definition (which was properly used during the U.S. Civil War [era], but has since changed) is different from the modern often-used definition.
Well, we repent for one, and Trust in Jesus. I agree that His sacrifice atoned for our sins past, present, future, and we are saved by His Grace. Yet, just because we are saved by His Grace do we continue on in that sin knowingly? "Heaven Forbid," Paul said. The reason for the Law was to make us aware of our sins, in which Jesus did not do away with the Law, but came to fulfill. Of course we confess our sins, but at the same time we repent. What good is confessing our sins, then just going on doing the same thing? Doesn't make sense.
Are we becoming a new creation in Christ? or are we continuing on in our "Old Nature," following after the things of the flesh?
Are we becoming a new creation in Christ? or are we continuing on in our "Old Nature," following after the things of the flesh?
Hey Ahwatukee,
Had to cut some of your quote to fit in the reply lol.
Thankful for the reply. Personally I'm under the impression that believers and followers in Yeshua/Jesus would be going through the Great Tribulation during the time of the "abomination of desolation," then "immediately following," the "elect" would be gathered at the "great sound" of the "shofar/trumpet." The whole chapter of Matthew 24 explains this. Here's some scriptures:
Matthew 24:15-31
Abomination of Desolation and the Great Tribulation
(15) "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
(16) "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(17) Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.
(18) And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
(19) But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
(20) And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
(21) For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
(23) "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.
(24) For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(25) See, I have told you beforehand.
(26) "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
(27) For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
(28) For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Son of Man Coming
(29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
(30) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Not only that, but Paul even said that we would be gathered up at the "last trump," or "sound of trumpet." Here's those scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
(51) Look, I will tell you a secret—not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
(52) It will take but a moment, the blink of an eye, at the final (last) shofar (trumpet). For the shofar (trumpet) will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever, and we too will be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
(13) Now, brothers, we want you to know the truth about those who have died; otherwise, you might become sad the way other people
(14) do who have nothing to hope for. For since we believe that Yeshua died and rose again, we also believe that in the same way God, through Yeshua, will take with him those who have died.
(15) When we say this, we base it on the Lord's own word: we who remain alive when the Lord comes will certainly not take precedence over those who have died.
(16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a rousing cry, with a call from one of the ruling angels, and with God's shofar; those who died united with the Messiah will be the first to rise;
(17) then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
(18) So encourage each other with these words.
In Matthew 24:29, Jesus describes the conditions of the sun, moon, stars, and that the heavens would be shaken following after the Great Tribulation. The crazy thing is that the 6th seal seems to parallel this. Here's scripture:
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Revelation 6:12-13
(12) I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
(13) And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
The 7th trumpet seems like the best timing for the gathering of the saints. Here's scripture:
Revelation 11:15-19
(15) Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
(16) And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,
(17) saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
(18) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
(19) Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
Personally, I think the Word gives a clear distinction of the order of events of things to come. Of course we won't know that exact timing or day of His return, but we can know of things to come in order to prepare us for His coming, because it will be as a "thief in the night." Here's scripture:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
Definitely open for correction and enjoy talking about the Word. Iron sharpens Iron.
Had to cut some of your quote to fit in the reply lol.
Thankful for the reply. Personally I'm under the impression that believers and followers in Yeshua/Jesus would be going through the Great Tribulation during the time of the "abomination of desolation," then "immediately following," the "elect" would be gathered at the "great sound" of the "shofar/trumpet." The whole chapter of Matthew 24 explains this. Here's some scriptures:
Matthew 24:15-31
Abomination of Desolation and the Great Tribulation
(15) "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
(16) "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(17) Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.
(18) And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
(19) But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
(20) And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
(21) For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
(23) "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.
(24) For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(25) See, I have told you beforehand.
(26) "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
(27) For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
(28) For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Son of Man Coming
(29) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
(30) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Not only that, but Paul even said that we would be gathered up at the "last trump," or "sound of trumpet." Here's those scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
(51) Look, I will tell you a secret—not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
(52) It will take but a moment, the blink of an eye, at the final (last) shofar (trumpet). For the shofar (trumpet) will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever, and we too will be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
(13) Now, brothers, we want you to know the truth about those who have died; otherwise, you might become sad the way other people
(14) do who have nothing to hope for. For since we believe that Yeshua died and rose again, we also believe that in the same way God, through Yeshua, will take with him those who have died.
(15) When we say this, we base it on the Lord's own word: we who remain alive when the Lord comes will certainly not take precedence over those who have died.
(16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a rousing cry, with a call from one of the ruling angels, and with God's shofar; those who died united with the Messiah will be the first to rise;
(17) then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.
(18) So encourage each other with these words.
In Matthew 24:29, Jesus describes the conditions of the sun, moon, stars, and that the heavens would be shaken following after the Great Tribulation. The crazy thing is that the 6th seal seems to parallel this. Here's scripture:
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Revelation 6:12-13
(12) I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
(13) And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
The 7th trumpet seems like the best timing for the gathering of the saints. Here's scripture:
Revelation 11:15-19
(15) Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
(16) And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,
(17) saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
(18) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
(19) Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
Personally, I think the Word gives a clear distinction of the order of events of things to come. Of course we won't know that exact timing or day of His return, but we can know of things to come in order to prepare us for His coming, because it will be as a "thief in the night." Here's scripture:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
Definitely open for correction and enjoy talking about the Word. Iron sharpens Iron.