Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

[Truth7t7]

""As Is Clearly Seen, Any Claim Of A (Pre-Trib) rapture is 100% false, This Is (THE LAST DAY)""

Thank God the rapture is clearly defined.

Your deal contradicts the bible.

Once we see our doctrine as false we stand at a crossroad.

1) 1 thes has the dead(only in Christ) rising BEFORE the living...yet your doctrine has the LIVING in rev 14 gathered BEFORE THE SUPPOSED DEAD AT THE SUPPOSED postrib rapture.
....so that is impossible

2)the ac kills ALL W/O THE MARK....yet your doctrine has the church thriving in the gt.

3) the church is in heaven as Jesus proclaimed during the gt and is seen in rev19
Coming down from heaven AS THE WIFE. which lines up with the 10 virgins, the "places prepared in heaven",the marriage supper,the parable of the wedding guests,the 7 letters to the 7 chuches,the "escape verse" the "keep you from" verse ,the declaration of Jesus placing the gathering pre judgement...and others
Yet your deal just ignores those verses completely.

So,omit our verses and ....poooof,postrib rapture makes sense.

....in y'alls camp....through omission of verses.

Your doctrine only made sense to early believers that lived in the era of a destroyed and scattered Israel.

Israel becoming a nation reset the prophetic window.

I can tell you right now that the replacement theology and disdain for the jews is birthed and incubated in the postrib rapture.
The early church had a "reason" to believe it ,as no israel was in the picture.

Now however,you guys have a different motive.

You can't defend your position honestly so all you basically pursue is a "anti pretrib obsession "

You just dont know any basis for trying to make the rapture postrib inspite of no verses.

You only believe pretrib is incorrect.

Pretrib is the Only position that fits.

Hands down.
My verses will never be changed or go away.

You guys have no verses

You "Disregard" the"Fact" that dead believers are seen in 1 Thess 4:14-17 below, you "Disregard" the fact these believers are resurrected on the "Last Day" as Jesus Christ taught below. You "Disregard" the"Fact" 1 Thess 4:14-17 below isnt a pre-trib rapture as is falsely taught, but is the "Last Day" resurrection and Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

We see below the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens and the resurrection of the believer in Jesus Christ.

God's word (CLEARLY TEACHES) that the resurrection takes place on the (LAST DAY) And yes this means (THE LAST DAY)

As Is Clearly Seen, Any Claim Of A (Pre-Trib) rapture is 100% false, This Is (THE LAST DAY)

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17KJV
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 6:40KJV
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

"I have yet to see anyone show me anything that remotely suggests pre-trib. What do you have?"
Your standing in a destroyed doctrine that can not be defended.

Take that chapter you reference
Mat 24
Jesus makes 3 references to a pretrib gathering.

You say you can not accept scripture?

Your claim is False.

There are "No" references of a pre-trib rapture whatsoever seen in Matthew 24 "None"!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Exodus 31 -

The Sign of the Sabbath

12 And the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Tell the Israelites, ‘Surely you must keep My Sabbaths, for this will be a sign between Me and you for the generations to come, so that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 Keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Anyone who profanes it must surely be put to death. Whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must surely be put to death.
16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath, celebrating it as a permanent covenant for the generations to come. 17 It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”




This reference to "A SIGN" (re: "the sabbath day"/7th day of the week) is said to be "between Me and the children of Israel for ever"...

--it is the "sabbatismos" of Hebrews 4:9... referring to the 7th Millennium ['7th Day', i.e. the future MK age], as I understand it, and correlating with...

--the "IN the THIRD day" (from the perspective of the point in time of His ascension, per Hosea 5:13-15, 6:1-3 [context, re: Israel (i.e. Israel's FUTURE)])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There are "No" references of a pre-trib rapture whatsoever seen in Matthew 24 "None"!

[as a "pre-tribber" ] I completely agree with you on this point (for once ).



There is no reference AT ALL to "our Rapture" in the Olivet Discourse (ANYWHERE!), as that is NOT its Subject.

Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse.

 

[cv5]

The Sons of God were Human "Men" as Genesis 6:1 shows, they were not "Angels" as Chuck Missler falsely taught and "Angels" dont procreate with humans, they arent given in marriage.

This "False Teaching" is derived from "Greek Mythology"

Your claim that the "Sons of God "RAPED" the daughters of men is 100% false, as they married them as wives.

Your teachings aren't to be taken seriously, at this point they're pure folly, in willful ignorance on display.

Genesis 6:1-2KJV
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Wrong again. You have triple redundancy supporting the fallen angels theory in the New Testament.

 

[cv5]

[as a "pre-tribber" ] I completely agree with you on this point (for once ).



There is no reference AT ALL to "our Rapture" in the Olivet Discourse (ANYWHERE!), as that is NOT its Subject.

Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse.

Absolutely Correct. And for some strange reason that's where they all go wrong. Conflating the Scriptures is the basis for the misunderstanding of the rapture.

 

[Kolistus]

Matthew and Luke do mention two bodies...they say that in that day there will be two men and two women...one will be taken and the other left. I just take the position that these two men and two women are the SAME person not different people.

Its funny that you just refuse to take the text for what it says, it just cannot be what it plainly states.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I agree 100% Matthew 24:29-31 is one of most prominent verses "PROVING" that the return of Jesus Christ is (Post-Trib)

The "RETURN" of Christ IS at the END of the trib. No one who holds to the "pre-trib rapture" viewpoint disagrees with that.

I just listed a number of passages [in Post #499, for example] pointing out that very thing. That speaks to His "RETURN" (to the earth Rev19).



[Matt24:29-31 = Isaiah 27:12-13 = Rev19 point in the chronology, at His "RETURN" to the earth]

 

[cv5]

The "RETURN" of Christ IS at the END of the trib. No one who holds to the "pre-trib rapture" viewpoint disagrees with that.

I just listed a number of passages [in Post #499, for example] pointing out that very thing. That speaks to His "RETURN" (to the earth Rev19).



[Matt24:29-31 = Isaiah 27:12-13 = Rev19 point in the chronology, at His "RETURN" to the earth]

That poor person is so mixed up, it is like watching a dog chasing his tail.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

That poor person is so mixed up, it is like watching a dog chasing his tail.

Well, take into consideration that that post of his that I quoted WAS posted WAY BACK on Page 4 of this thread (on Sunday, which was DAYS ago...). Perhaps he may have changed up his wording, since then, who knows...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Against my better judgment, I have decided to make a single post to this thread.

I thoroughly disagree.

 

[Runningman]

That poor person is so mixed up, it is like watching a dog chasing his tail.

So people who preach the Bible are like dogs now? Well, that took a turn. You could at least ping who you're referencing to give them a chance to reply. @Truth7t7

 

[Ahwatukee]

Post-trib didn't get debunked. I just showed you what the Bible says about it. I agree the Bible should be understood it's entirety. If something doesn't mesh together with scripture then it can only be concluded we aren't understanding something completely.

What you showed me does not undo what Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4 says. There is no reference to a pre-trib gathering of the elect of any sort. There is a gathering at the 2nd coming of Christ though and that's after the great tribulation.

I'm only showing you what the Bible says. You decide what you want to believe.

The Bible also shows us that the church cannot go through the time of God's wrath, which will take place in conjunction to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. So, don't just pick and chose what you want to support what you have adopted, but include all of the related scripture. Right now you are ignoring or distorting the wrath of God in relation to those in Christ. By believing and teaching a post-trib gathering, you are putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

 

[cv5]

So people who preach the Bible are like dogs now? Well, that took a turn. You could at least ping who you're referencing to give them a chance to reply. @Truth7t7

Sorry my bad. But pls lighten up a little. And pls carefully scrutinize TheDivineWatermark´s posts. He is spot on regarding the rapture and resurrection.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry my bad. But pls lighten up a little. And pls carefully scrutinize TheDivineWatermark´s posts. He is spot on regarding the rapture and resurrection.

Ok I accept that. Thank you bro.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You misunderstand-------------We are looking and waiting for Jesus return when He will put an end to all wickedness.

I have just started a thread on this very subject. See
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-second-coming-of-christ-is-for-judgment.192812/

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible also shows us that the church cannot go through the time of God's wrath, which will take place in conjunction to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. So, don't just pick and chose what you want to support what you have adopted, but include all of the related scripture. Right now you are ignoring or distorting the wrath of God in relation to those in Christ. By believing and teaching a post-trib gathering, you are putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

You quote the "Standard" dispensational false claim that Rev 3:10 is God's promise to rapture the church to heaven before the great tribulation?

1.) How are those of the synagogue of Satan going to worship at the churches feet, if it's gone from earth in a rapture to heaven?

2.) How's the church going to overcome if its raptured away to heaven before the tribulation?

Revelation 3:9-13KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible also shows us that the church cannot go through the time of God's wrath, which will take place in conjunction to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. So, don't just pick and chose what you want to support what you have adopted, but include all of the related scripture. Right now you are ignoring or distorting the wrath of God in relation to those in Christ. By believing and teaching a post-trib gathering, you are putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

The tribulation's "Two Witnesses"?

It's going to be a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the witnesses are going to be in full control of all plagues upon the Beast and his kingdom, All Plagues!

Will God fulfill his promise to protect the Church from the final hour of earths temptation during the tribulation?

Yes! Just as in the days of old in Egypt, as clearly seen in Isaiah 26:20-21, the Church is instructed to enter their dwellings and shut their doors until the Lord's indignation is past, exactly like the Passover in Egypt, "Awesome"!

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[Truth7t7]

That poor person is so mixed up, it is like watching a dog chasing his tail.

Who is that poor person?

 

[Truth7t7]

Absolutely Correct. And for some strange reason that's where they all go wrong. Conflating the Scriptures is the basis for the misunderstanding of the rapture.

Conflating the scriptures is how dispensationalism creates a pre-trib rapture.