"Not by works" - false!
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1Jon4:10
"This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins"
1John4:14
"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be savior of the world".
He extended His grace to a sinful world by sending His son as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world.
"This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins"
1John4:14
"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be savior of the world".
He extended His grace to a sinful world by sending His son as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world.
I have...only they are alien to you...because I don’t believe you are born again...if you were you would understand the scripture I posted...I mean no offence just being honest.
I’m not saying you aren’t a believer..you believe in the mind...you just aren’t born again.BIG DIFFERENCE.
I’m not saying you aren’t a believer..you believe in the mind...you just aren’t born again.BIG DIFFERENCE.
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You either trust in Christ’s finished work or in your own works
A person who trusts in his work may claim he trusts in Christ also. But I will disagree and claim this is not true
If I say I am going to give you a million dollars because I love you and expect nothing in return. And you keep insisting on doing things to earn if. Number 1 you are offending me. Number 2 you do not trust me when I said you could not earn it it is a gift based on my love only
A person who trusts in his work may claim he trusts in Christ also. But I will disagree and claim this is not true
If I say I am going to give you a million dollars because I love you and expect nothing in return. And you keep insisting on doing things to earn if. Number 1 you are offending me. Number 2 you do not trust me when I said you could not earn it it is a gift based on my love only
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Hey, I am on your side in this argument but ... I would say the verse addresses our current status and not our future status necessarily.
I like these verses better... there are a lot more
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me [Christ], is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [a true believer cannot renounce his faith]
Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? … 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I like these verses better... there are a lot more
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me [Christ], is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. [a true believer cannot renounce his faith]
Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? … 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
But not necessary right? verse 11. Merely a friendly recommendation from Peter. Not really convenient to an OSAS gospel.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
But not necessary right? verse 11. Merely a friendly recommendation from Peter. Not really convenient to an OSAS gospel.
Hi @jackrosie ...
I think we have to be very careful stating that someone is not saved , I don`t think this is our call...
God knows who are His...
To say to someone they are not born again is kind of putting ourselves above God judgements , but that is my personal view , but I do believe we have to be cautious nevertheless...
...xox...
I think we have to be very careful stating that someone is not saved , I don`t think this is our call...
God knows who are His...
To say to someone they are not born again is kind of putting ourselves above God judgements , but that is my personal view , but I do believe we have to be cautious nevertheless...
...xox...
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John 6v39 - it may be the Lord's will that none of them are lost. It may be the Lord's will too that people believe in Jesus. It doesn't mean that all will be saved. It doesn't mean that all will believe in Jesus. People have free will. This happened in the Garden of Eden...and is still happening today.
John 10v29 - notice the words "them" and "no one". These are not the same. It means that OTHERS are not able to snatch you from the Fathers hand. But YOU are free to walk away by your own will.
Romans 8v31 --- same argument as in John 10v29.
John 10v29 - notice the words "them" and "no one". These are not the same. It means that OTHERS are not able to snatch you from the Fathers hand. But YOU are free to walk away by your own will.
Romans 8v31 --- same argument as in John 10v29.
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Micaiah Imla....I apologise for saying you aren’t born again...I had no right to say that....once again my ego got in the way....I am going to take a break....
God Bless You...and hope we can move forward.
If I said it to anyone else..I apologise...I said it to you Chris and I sincerely apologise.
God Bless You...and hope we can move forward.
If I said it to anyone else..I apologise...I said it to you Chris and I sincerely apologise.
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About right in my view. "Free will" needs definition as it differs from that of Arminianism.
"Free will" to the Calvinist is defined as ... "We always desire what we want most at the time" Augustine
So how does "free will' work in the Calvinist's view? With salvation is works like this:
Initially, no one free will desires to believe (depravity of man.. NO ONE SEEKS GOD)
God chooses some for salvation and to do so God changes a person's desire (Calvinist's refer to this as the FIRST CAUSE)
Now that a person's desire has been changed by God ... they, of their 'free will', believe God (Calvinist's refer to this as the SECOND CAUSE)
Calvinist's believe God (first cause) causes everything to happen according to his plan/decree (I don't want to get into theodocies ... this story long enough). Man does things (second cause) as a result of the first cause. Man's desires (second cause) are controlled by God (first cause)
Aside: This is in accord to the Law of Causality .... the law states every effect has a cause which is true by defintion
Aside2: Well, what caused God? Answer: God is eternal and therefore does not require a cause. If God is the only eternal entity, then God causes all things.
"Free will" to the Calvinist is defined as ... "We always desire what we want most at the time" Augustine
So how does "free will' work in the Calvinist's view? With salvation is works like this:
Initially, no one free will desires to believe (depravity of man.. NO ONE SEEKS GOD)
God chooses some for salvation and to do so God changes a person's desire (Calvinist's refer to this as the FIRST CAUSE)
Now that a person's desire has been changed by God ... they, of their 'free will', believe God (Calvinist's refer to this as the SECOND CAUSE)
Calvinist's believe God (first cause) causes everything to happen according to his plan/decree (I don't want to get into theodocies ... this story long enough). Man does things (second cause) as a result of the first cause. Man's desires (second cause) are controlled by God (first cause)
Aside: This is in accord to the Law of Causality .... the law states every effect has a cause which is true by defintion
Aside2: Well, what caused God? Answer: God is eternal and therefore does not require a cause. If God is the only eternal entity, then God causes all things.
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Your discussion with a fellow brother is obviously degenerating. Thats a shame. You sound defensive and frustrated. If Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t enough for our salvation, then no amount of work could possibly be enough. Can a man accept the free offer of Christ’s perfect sacrifice , do nothing righteous afterward, and still be saved? Yes, absolutely ! (The crucified sinner next to Jesus did nothing but hang around for a while, then die.)
Grace + (any thing) is a (well meaning ?) mistake.
Grace + (any thing) is a (well meaning ?) mistake.
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