"Not by works" - false!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,181
#2,181
Micaiah-imla said:
What truly is sad is that you think most of the New Testament doctrine of holiness is a self works Manual.

You will never meet the requirements of holiness believing in OSAS.
Click to expand...
The requirement is perfection

You have failed. Thus your already lost
 
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#2,184
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
#2,184
eternally-gratefull said:
The requirement is perfection
Click to expand...
Your judgment about me is incorrect.

I follow the scriptures; you should start doing the same.

2 Corinthians 13:11
[11] Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#2,185
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#2,185
Micaiah-imla said:
Yes, in my mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Click to expand...

How did you receive the Holy Spirit into your heart?
 
P

Pulie

Active member
#2,189
May 26, 2020
216
94
28
#2,189
eternally-gratefull said:
He has not not heard n the fatalistic sense
Click to expand...
According to Calvinism , predestination and fatalism are not the same thing.
Predestination does not exclude free will
Fatalism excludes free will and gives life no meaning. I might be wrong about their definition. Please share your knowledge of it.
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#2,190
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#2,190
Pulie said:
Okay let's agree to disagree. I believe God has not predestined people to go to hell.
Click to expand...
Well, one last question please.

You say GOD loves everyone without excepton and that God is holy. How can a HOLY GOD love that which is not HOLY, that which is opposed to Him, whose father is Satan ... a God who does not lie, who states Psalm 5:5 You hate all who do evil?

Definition of holy
Holiness means not only that He is separate from all that is unclean and evil but also that He is positively pure and thus distinct from all others. The two aspects of this divine attribute place emphasis on his moral perfection and metaphysical transcendence. Both aspects imply separation from that which is morally or metaphysically inferior. To be holy is to be moral perfection (pure and righteous), and also aloof and separated.

Aside: Perhaps you have a different definition of 'holy'?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,191
#2,191
Micaiah-imla said:
Your judgment about me is incorrect.

I follow the scriptures; you should start doing the same.

2 Corinthians 13:11
[11] Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Click to expand...
I said the requirement is perfection

Have you been perfect since birth?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,192
#2,192
Pulie said:
According to Calvinism , predestination and fatalism are not the same thing.
Predestination does not exclude free will
Fatalism excludes free will and gives life no meaning. I might be wrong about their definition. Please share your knowledge of it.
Click to expand...
Fatalism is Calvinistic view if predestination

It is incorrect
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#2,194
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#2,194
jackrosie said:
And I am being completely serious....that I don’t believe that you are born again...no offence meant.
It’s all about me,me,me,self,self self with you.
Click to expand...

This was not directed to Judges Fred..I have been misquoted..it was directed to Micaiah imla
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#2,196
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#2,196
eternally-gratefull said:
Your hope is in your power to
Continue to believe
Click to expand...
This is very good point and I would like to high light it. To depend upon oneself to do something is salvation by works. One must do something to continue to be saved. One must continue believing.

Definition of work: to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#2,197
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#2,197
eternally-gratefull said:
My answer

You will never find someone who think he has to just do this to be saved. In this case I am sure there are many things the person must do to be saved

In this case is their trust in their works

Or in the death of Christ

And it is in their works what makes them any different than the Pharisee who was always called out by Christ himself for thinking it was their works that saved them
Click to expand...
Your answer was difficult to read. I think you are asking whether the hypothetical guy:
TRUSTED IN HIS WORK OR IN THE DEATH OF CHRIST
I am saying the hypothetical guy TRUSTED IN HIS WORK AND IN THE DEATH OF CHRIST

As I said, the hypothetical guy was a model believer except for one belief he had to give a nickel to charity once a year to be saved.

So, is he damned or not?????
I think you are saying anyone is damned if he doesn't believe 100% of the gospel (don't make any mistakes) ... thus the question for clarification.
So, is he damned or not????? Yes or No?
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#2,198
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#2,198
Judges1318 said:
No offense taken. I know I'm completely and totally saved.


You'll have to get past vague cliches like this to understand the role of 'you' in salvation.
I know that the center of your misunderstanding is this matter of 'believing' and who does it for you.

Trust me, if God did your believing for you, he'd do a much better job than you or I have done at it.
God gave us the faith to believe. He provided what we needed so that we can trust him.
That's not a works gospel. Paul clearly puts 'believing/trusting' on the opposite side of the works that can not justify.
Click to expand...

This was posted to Micaiah Imla....I did not post that to you Judges go back and look.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#2,199
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#2,199
Fastfredy0 said:
This is very good point and I would like to high light it. To depend upon oneself to do something is salvation by works. One must do something to continue to be saved. One must continue believing.

Definition of work: to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity
Click to expand...
There is opinion....and then there is scripture:

Colossians 1
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#2,200
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#2,200
Chris1975 said:
There is opinion....and then there is scripture:

Colossians 1
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Click to expand...
And the verse before this....you know...for context...

Colossians 1
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
 
You must log in or register to reply here.