Not By Works
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Well, I'm thinking "being saved" is more like being "born again" as a baby, I am FOREVER the child of my Father and Mother......no matter how much I say I'm not their child.......
Now, having a relationship with God is like marriage.......we're not to commit spiritual adultery and run after other gods.
Now, having a relationship with God is like marriage.......we're not to commit spiritual adultery and run after other gods.
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Hold on, @oyster67 - a dog and a sow are unclean animals they are NOT lambs. There are those that say they are followers of Christ, just like the disciple of Judas but are NOT. These unclean, unsaved WILL return to their very own vomit and mire.
A true born again believer is NOT a dog or sow, we are lambs lead to the slaughter (denying ourself, taking up our cross and following Jesus) and we have a Good Shepherd that is leading us and overseeing us.
We use to be dogs and swine but, we are NO LONGER. We have a new nature - no longer a sinful nature in Adam but, now a new nature - a spiritual nature in Christ. We will NEVER be dogs or swine again.
A true born again believer is NOT a dog or sow, we are lambs lead to the slaughter (denying ourself, taking up our cross and following Jesus) and we have a Good Shepherd that is leading us and overseeing us.
We use to be dogs and swine but, we are NO LONGER. We have a new nature - no longer a sinful nature in Adam but, now a new nature - a spiritual nature in Christ. We will NEVER be dogs or swine again.
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Now, DorothyMae - if a new little "born again" baby believer dies, they die IN CHRIST - still saved.
Divorce........well, God hates divorce and He does hate infidelity. He dealt with Israel's infidelity with the Prophet Hosea.....I do seem to recall that Hosea purchased his adulterous wife back and redeemed her.....and God does the same for us!
Divorce........well, God hates divorce and He does hate infidelity. He dealt with Israel's infidelity with the Prophet Hosea.....I do seem to recall that Hosea purchased his adulterous wife back and redeemed her.....and God does the same for us!
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Okay, I think I know where you're going with this "obligations of love"........
Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey My commandments..." Am I right, is this where you are going, correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, if we do truly LOVE Jesus and belong to HIM, He will have given us the Holy Spirit and in the power of the Holy Spirit we WILL be able to obey Jesus' commandments. However, the Holy Spirit has to renew our minds first so we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a process....line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.....
Our mistake is in resisting, grieving, quenching and neglecting the Holy Spirit. We really need more understanding on the "work of the Holy Spirit" in the believer's life.
Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey My commandments..." Am I right, is this where you are going, correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, if we do truly LOVE Jesus and belong to HIM, He will have given us the Holy Spirit and in the power of the Holy Spirit we WILL be able to obey Jesus' commandments. However, the Holy Spirit has to renew our minds first so we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a process....line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.....
Our mistake is in resisting, grieving, quenching and neglecting the Holy Spirit. We really need more understanding on the "work of the Holy Spirit" in the believer's life.
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John 6:66-70
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
John 6:71
71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
Peter calls him Lord, Judas does not.
Psalms 41:9
9 Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me.
John 6:38-40
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
John 6:71
71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
Peter calls him Lord, Judas does not.
Psalms 41:9
9 Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me.
John 6:38-40
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
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Yes this was my line of reasoning. I believe it is a very strong argument for salvation not being loseable.
I invite @DorothyMae to explain and harmonize the above two Scriptures (John 17:12 and John 18:9) in her understanding of Judas' salvation being lost. Because Jesus lost none according to John 18:9. But if John 17:12 is interpreted to mean that He lost Judas (instead of what we believe, that Judas was a lost man and never found to begin with) that means Jesus indeed lost some. If one wants to argue for Judas' salvation, then they need to clear this contradiction.
I also thought of this last night:
John 6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
Why was this so important to Jesus to gather all the remnants and nothing being lost. Did Jesus run out of power for multiplying food so He wanted to save the scraps for later? What else can it mean, "fragments that remain" and "nothing be lost", when it can be only one thing in the world.
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
If my interpretation is wrong and some is indeed lost, please provide an alternative explanation of significance and meaning in Jesus commandment to the apostles to gather the remnants so that "nothing be lost".
I invite @DorothyMae to explain and harmonize the above two Scriptures (John 17:12 and John 18:9) in her understanding of Judas' salvation being lost. Because Jesus lost none according to John 18:9. But if John 17:12 is interpreted to mean that He lost Judas (instead of what we believe, that Judas was a lost man and never found to begin with) that means Jesus indeed lost some. If one wants to argue for Judas' salvation, then they need to clear this contradiction.
I also thought of this last night:
John 6:12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
Why was this so important to Jesus to gather all the remnants and nothing being lost. Did Jesus run out of power for multiplying food so He wanted to save the scraps for later? What else can it mean, "fragments that remain" and "nothing be lost", when it can be only one thing in the world.
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
If my interpretation is wrong and some is indeed lost, please provide an alternative explanation of significance and meaning in Jesus commandment to the apostles to gather the remnants so that "nothing be lost".
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Okay, I think I know where you're going with this "obligations of love"........
Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey My commandments..." Am I right, is this where you are going, correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, if we do truly LOVE Jesus and belong to HIM, He will have given us the Holy Spirit and in the power of the Holy Spirit we WILL be able to obey Jesus' commandments. However, the Holy Spirit has to renew our minds first so we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a process....line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.....
Our mistake is in resisting, grieving, quenching and neglecting the Holy Spirit. We really need more understanding on the "work of the Holy Spirit" in the believer's life.
Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will obey My commandments..." Am I right, is this where you are going, correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, if we do truly LOVE Jesus and belong to HIM, He will have given us the Holy Spirit and in the power of the Holy Spirit we WILL be able to obey Jesus' commandments. However, the Holy Spirit has to renew our minds first so we can know the perfect Will of God. It's a process....line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.....
Our mistake is in resisting, grieving, quenching and neglecting the Holy Spirit. We really need more understanding on the "work of the Holy Spirit" in the believer's life.
I’m still in the middle of moving so please excuse the delay. I’ll answer the other later as I find time.
This is pretty close to the mark with one exception. Your post assumes we will find it easy to obey Him because He changes us. Now I’d to ask everyone who believes this how this is going for them. Do they find that this describes their choices? Is this your life?
What I think the reality is God places in our hearts what is right and leaves us to bridle in our selfish desires to some degree ourselves which is constantly described in the Bible as the struggle against sin. We have our part in doing his will by choice and He has his part. I do not think it’s all me but I reject the OSAS idea that He reaches in and makes it easy so we needn’t struggle or choose to do right. That actually supports the flesh as all denying the flesh is supposed to be eliminated.
This is what I see in scripture reality. No one in a loving
relationship thinks it means there is never struggle against the self or denial by choice with pure will.
What do you think of that?
No problem. Whenever you respond is good.
I owe you a sumup of Scriptures on Judas as well, because I want to be comprehensive.
I realized this morning that you guys are probably deriving the idea about Judas' salvation from "yea, my own familiar friend.." I still do not agree this is sufficient to prove Judas was saved because of other Scriptures, but I am trying to understand the other point of view.
Happy moving
I owe you a sumup of Scriptures on Judas as well, because I want to be comprehensive.
I realized this morning that you guys are probably deriving the idea about Judas' salvation from "yea, my own familiar friend.." I still do not agree this is sufficient to prove Judas was saved because of other Scriptures, but I am trying to understand the other point of view.
Happy moving
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