Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually it is NOSAS that asserts one thing and denies it in the next breath

If you can lose salvation then clearly it is not of yourselves....... AND something is required of you.

Logic

Thus it is “OF YOURSELVES“

 

[jackrosie]

The blood of Jesus can wash away or sin?

Or has washed away our sin?

Has washed away our sins...when we were saved.

 

[EleventhHour]

Because we believe the blood of Jesus saves us.

You write these words but I am not oblivious to game.

You assert that which you do NOT uphold and it is NOT according to scripture.

By Christ’s shed blood we are redeemed. (Romans 5:1).

“So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” (Hebrews 9:28)

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

You need to stop using the word saved since you distorts its meaning please use "quasi-saved" which in no salvation at all
For you the shed blood is inadequate to save because it requires the addition of human effort.. the very heart of NOSAS is self-effort.

But you can deny.. I know you will that is the game.

 

[BillG]

Has washed away our sins...when we were saved.

I think he washed our sins away before were saved.

Washed away when on the cross he said "it is finished"

When we come to him the debt of sin has been paid on our account.

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess you miss the context. Still, Jesus makes clear that those He knows give to others in need, not steal from them like Judas did.

Do you deny that Jesus is God?

She denies the truth like like a politician denies and attempts to twist something they said after it was recorded by 6 news agencies!

 

[EleventhHour]

Are you sure that you comprehend conditional salvation correctly?

Do you think we live in daily fear of losing our salvation?

Do you think we believe in salvation by works?

Do you think that we do not have blessed assurance and peace and joy that only the Holy Spirit can give?

Being saved is like marriage. Fidelity is required.

Your "fidelity" becomes a duty for the gift... and requirement denies grace

And it is contrary to it being a gift

Also Paul makes it clear we do not put God in our debt.

Correction ... Not recompense >> duty

 

[Magenta]

Romans 13:10 The panel progressions

 

[EleventhHour]

No, the very gospel is that we “are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. (Romans 3:24-25, NRSV)

There is not the slightest hint here that once having been justified, we will not return to our sin and no longer be in a saved state. Let us not forget that salvation is salvation from sin (Matt. 1:21)—and that all too many Christians return to their sin.

2 Peter 2:15. Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
16. but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
17. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
18. For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. (RSV)

The way of Balaam .... not saved.

 

[Lafftur]

Hi Laff,

I’m still in the middle of moving so please excuse the delay. I’ll answer the other later as I find time.

This is pretty close to the mark with one exception. Your post assumes we will find it easy to obey Him because He changes us. Now I’d to ask everyone who believes this how this is going for them. Do they find that this describes their choices? Is this your life?

What I think the reality is God places in our hearts what is right and leaves us to bridle in our selfish desires to some degree ourselves which is constantly described in the Bible as the struggle against sin. We have our part in doing his will by choice and He has his part. I do not think it’s all me but I reject the OSAS idea that He reaches in and makes it easy so we needn’t struggle or choose to do right. That actually supports the flesh as all denying the flesh is supposed to be eliminated.

This is what I see in scripture reality. No one in a loving
relationship thinks it means there is never struggle against the self or denial by choice with pure will.

What do you think of that?

Hello DororthyMae,

I don't recall saying it would be easy to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh but, ONLY with the Holy Spirit is it even possible. Thinking we can obey God in our own strength without God's Holy Spirit is just works of the flesh that puff us up and make us prideful.

The only good works of obedience that God is going to accept will be those done in us and through us by His Word and His Spirit by renewing our minds so we can know the perfect Will of God and no, it's not easy - it's a growing up process.

Just yesterday, I was shopping with my brother who is also a spirit-filled believer and we did the self checkout. When we got to my minivan, I realized I never scanned and paid for the cat litter in my cart.

I looked at him and said, "Oh no, I didn't pay for my cat liter." He said, "Oh well, that's not a big deal just put it in the van and let's go."

We're both saved and spirit-filled yet, he tends to backslide a lot and his life is miserable. I knew better than to drive off with that cat litter without paying for it. If I did, I would have been miserable and it would have grieved the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit grieves, it grieves me, too. So, I went right back in the store and paid for my cat litter.

Personally, I think God let that happen to show my brother that it would have been wrong to not pay for the cat litter because on the way back to the van with my newly purchased cat litter, I said to my brother....."Ya know, I think that was a test of my integrity... God just said, "You passed, well done!" It's fun to please God, it gives us joy to do what is right.

My flesh did NOT want to go all the way back in to the store, wait in line and pay for the cat litter, my flesh wanted to just drive off BUT, the Holy Spirit was saying, "No, no, don't do it," and I chose to walk by the Spirit, not the flesh even over simple cat litter because it would have been stealing.

So, there you go.......two spirit-filled believers both knew it would be wrong yet, one chose to do it God's Way. We're both still saved. Even if I had not paid for the cat litter, I would still be saved but, miserable. Sinning makes a believer miserable.

So, there you go.......it's working in my life and I'm having fun pleasing God. It's not working in my brother's life and he is miserable. All he has to do is start cooperating with the Holy Spirit. He never loses his salvation.

 

[dcontroversal]

You write these words but I am not oblivious to game.

You assert that which you do NOT uphold and it is NOT according to scripture.

By Christ’s shed blood we are redeemed. (Romans 5:1).

“So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” (Hebrews 9:28)

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

You need to stop using the word saved since you distorts its meaning please use "quasi-saved" which in no salvation at all
For you the shed blood is inadequate to save because it requires the addition of human effort.. the very heart of NOSAS is self-effort.

But you can deny.. I know you will that is the game.

Amen, just like the snake in the garden did....add ONE WORD, with a little "seasoning" of doubt and the entore message becomes sewage with no power to save a man......I STAND AMAZED at the deception thay is peddled by some on here. Claiming Christ yet constantly rejecting the simple truths of the bible over amd over and over, in pride REFUSING to open their eyes. Just like above.....they harp on works being part of it, will deny Judas was called A DEVIL IN THE PRESENT TENSE with the "be verb" IS AND was declared UNCLEAN by Christ yet they wil say that a Thief, called an UNCLEAN DEVIL AND THE SON OF PERDITION was saved and lost it.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to engage such deception and dishonesty with the truth which they rend and trample under the feet incessantly!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I think he washed our sins away before were saved.

Washed away when on the cross he said "it is finished"

When we come to him the debt of sin has been paid on our account.

When Jesus said...."IT IS FINISHED" <- a legally binding accounting term.....PAID IN FULL

HIS BLOOD continually CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN and when GOD LOOKS AT ME.....he sees me through the blood of his SON and eternally JUSTIFIED!

 

[jackrosie]

I think he washed our sins away before were saved.

Washed away when on the cross he said "it is finished"

When we come to him the debt of sin has been paid on our account.

Now I see it differently..I was dead in sin....then he came into me and washed my sins away.

He paid the price for our sins,by dieing on the cross..so he took all of mankind’s sin.

 

[EleventhHour]

Amen, just like the snake in the garden did....add ONE WORD, with a little "seasoning" of doubt and the entore message becomes sewage with no power to save a man......I STAND AMAZED at the deception thay is peddled by some on here. Claiming Christ yet constantly rejecting the simple truths of the bible over amd over and over, in pride REFUSING to open their eyes. Just like above.....they harp on works being part of it, will deny Judas was called A DEVIL IN THE PRESENT TENSE with the "be verb" IS AND was declared UNCLEAN by Christ yet they wil say that a Thief, called an UNCLEAN DEVIL AND THE SON OF PERDITION was saved and lost it.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to engage such deception and dishonesty with the truth which they rend and trample under the feet incessantly!!

It really is impossible... all them have the craft of denial, distorting, twisting, double speak....... subtlety and overtly down pat.

 

[Lafftur]

Hello DororthyMae,

I don't recall saying it would be easy to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh but, ONLY with the Holy Spirit is it even possible. Thinking we can obey God in our own strength without God's Holy Spirit is just works of the flesh that puff us up and make us prideful.

The only good works of obedience that God is going to accept will be those done in us and through us by His Word and His Spirit by renewing our minds so we can know the perfect Will of God and no, it's not easy - it's a growing up process.

Just yesterday, I was shopping with my brother who is also a spirit-filled believer and we did the self checkout. When we got to my minivan, I realized I never scanned and paid for the cat litter in my cart.

I looked at him and said, "Oh no, I didn't pay for my cat liter." He said, "Oh well, that's not a big deal just put it in the van and let's go."

We're both saved and spirit-filled yet, he tends to backslide a lot and his life is miserable. I knew better than to drive off with that cat litter without paying for it. If I did, I would have been miserable and it would have grieved the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit grieves, it grieves me, too. So, I went right back in the store and paid for my cat litter.

Personally, I think God let that happen to show my brother that it would have been wrong to not pay for the cat litter because on the way back to the van with my newly purchased cat litter, I said to my brother....."Ya know, I think that was a test of my integrity... God just said, "You passed, well done!" It's fun to please God, it gives us joy to do what is right.

My flesh did NOT want to go all the way back in to the store, wait in line and pay for the cat litter, my flesh wanted to just drive off BUT, the Holy Spirit was saying, "No, no, don't do it," and I chose to walk by the Spirit, not the flesh even over simple cat litter because it would have been stealing.

So, there you go.......two spirit-filled believers both knew it would be wrong yet, one chose to do it God's Way. We're both still saved. Even if I had not paid for the cat litter, I would still be saved but, miserable. Sinning makes a believer miserable.

So, there you go.......it's working in my life and I'm having fun pleasing God. It's not working in my brother's life and he is miserable. All he has to do is start cooperating with the Holy Spirit. He never loses his salvation.

Just want to add that I don't walk by the Spirit all the time, when I do - I am happy and when I don't - I am miserable yet, ALWAYS saved.

 

[jackrosie]

Just want to add that I don't walk by the Spirit all the time, when I do - I am happy and when I don't - I am miserable yet, ALWAYS saved.

Brilliant,thank you Lafftur...the same for me...that post really helped and spoke to me...thank you Lord.

 

[dcontroversal]

No, the very gospel is that we “are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. (Romans 3:24-25, NRSV)

There is not the slightest hint here that once having been justified, we will not return to our sin and no longer be in a saved state. Let us not forget that salvation is salvation from sin (Matt. 1:21)—and that all too many Christians return to their sin.

2 Peter 2:15. Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
16. but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
17. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
18. For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. (RSV)

You obviously do not grasp....

Having obtained ETERNAL redemption for them

HE HATH perfected FOREVER those who he sanctified

I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE

The gifts and calling of GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE

WE ARE kept by the POWER OF GOD THROUGH THE FAITH he begins, finishes and completes in us

I WILL never leave or forsake thee

I will LOSE NOTHING

We are saved to the uttermost

Where sin abounds, Grace abounds the more

Sealed unto the day of redemption

God chastens ONLY SONS <-why?

I am pursaded that he will keep that which I commited unto HIM AGAINST THAT DAY

AND ON AND OJ AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON

It must be tragic to serve such a weak, inept god with a small g that NEEDS our help to finish WHAT HE PROMISED TO DO HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Do what?

your reasoning to deny what Jesus said is nonsensical.

tribulation is the context.

who would not want to endure that suffering to witness the return of Christ and enter his kingdom with him?

Yep

 

[dcontroversal]

Physical salvation is impossible.

All flesh will eventually die regardless of circumstances.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50).

If enduring to the end means not dying in the flesh (in the end times) then the logical conclusion if captured by the beasts army is to get the mark to avoid dying.

Many people today are so focused on saving their flesh that they obey a commandment from man to wear a mask on their face. What do you suppose many will do when faced with the threat of execution if the mark is refused?

False....

It is appointed unto men once to die <--the word ALL is not found

WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN unto the coming of the LORD shall be CHANGED!!!!

NOT all flesh will DIE

 

[Lafftur]

No, the very gospel is that we “are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. (Romans 3:24-25, NRSV)

There is not the slightest hint here that once having been justified, we will not return to our sin and no longer be in a saved state. Let us not forget that salvation is salvation from sin (Matt. 1:21)—and that all too many Christians return to their sin.

2 Peter 2:15. Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
16. but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
17. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
18. For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. (RSV)

No, @Sagart - these that Peter speaks of followed Christ for self-promoting reasons, they were given the gospel but never received it by FAITH - they received by their FLESH for selfish gain that's why they are still "dogs" and "swine" returning to their own vomit and mire.

They NEVER had salvation to lose.

If they had been truly saved, they would be referred to as "prodigal sons/daughters" or lost sheep.

 

[dcontroversal]

You do not understand us.

Haha we understand your position just fine....it is not biblical.....end of story!