Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Did Judas ever confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus is Lord?
The answer is that it’s not that simple so that one “prayer” works for all. Some require different responses.
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Judas fell away, there is no disagreement about that. However where we differ in belief is that you believe he lost salvation, but I really don't believe he was saved at any point of time.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I don't believe that Judas was given to Jesus.
I know that they were given to Jesus because Jesus said so:
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
This doesn't mean that Judas lost salvation, or being "given and lost", it means that the son of perdition was put into that office, so the scripture may be fulfilled (by someone betraying Jesus).
If I am wrong, and Judas was indeed given to Jesus' hand but lost salvation, it would contradict John 18:9 "That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none."
I don't know if I am given. I believe in Jesus, that He will finish the work He started in me. This battle is surely not down to our abilities, we have divine help.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I don't believe that Judas was given to Jesus.
I know that they were given to Jesus because Jesus said so:
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
This doesn't mean that Judas lost salvation, or being "given and lost", it means that the son of perdition was put into that office, so the scripture may be fulfilled (by someone betraying Jesus).
If I am wrong, and Judas was indeed given to Jesus' hand but lost salvation, it would contradict John 18:9 "That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none."
I don't know if I am given. I believe in Jesus, that He will finish the work He started in me. This battle is surely not down to our abilities, we have divine help.
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Jesus said He only lost one. This has been mentioned multiple times. The others all received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Do you think this was given to any who had not acknowledged Jesus as Lord? My Lord and My God. "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Do you really think James did not not acknowledge Jesus as Lord? That strikes me as a bit odd given what he wrote.
James a servant of God, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve Tribes, which are scattered abroad, salutation.
James a servant of God, and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve Tribes, which are scattered abroad, salutation.
Jesus told others to count the cost before they choose to follow. He didn’t promise once “born again” they’ll have a new heart so they’ll be no cost too high.
27Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. 28For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?29Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31
Notice Jesus warns us and doesn’t promise he’ll bear all for us and that not finishing is possible.
You know, it’s better to press in and seek Him, read his word, discipline your life to staying true rather then relying on a theology that tells you He is doing all that for you.
27Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. 28For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?29Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31
Notice Jesus warns us and doesn’t promise he’ll bear all for us and that not finishing is possible.
You know, it’s better to press in and seek Him, read his word, discipline your life to staying true rather then relying on a theology that tells you He is doing all that for you.
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I didn’t say that. I asked you for a scripture to back up your claim that Judas didn’t acknowledge Jesus as Lord which you think is why he was lost as opposed to the others who, in your view did. You assume Judas didn’t and the others did because you want that to be the reason Judas is lost, not because a single scripture backs you up.
Judas was lost because he changed his mind about
following Jesus. This is the point that OSAS cannot admit happens. It is the simplest and most common reason people fall away and Jesus gave the reasons.
Judas was lost because he changed his mind about
following Jesus. This is the point that OSAS cannot admit happens. It is the simplest and most common reason people fall away and Jesus gave the reasons.
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