"Not by works" - false!
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So glad that we have found much common ground, but I must share my understanding about coming to The Lord. Jesus died for all and calls all men to repentance. To repent and believe or to reject and not believe is the choice that all must make.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Also, Webster's dictionary may be helpful if it aids in explaining and illustrating already-established Doctrine. But it is not useful as a tool for basing and building Doctrine upon.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Also, Webster's dictionary may be helpful if it aids in explaining and illustrating already-established Doctrine. But it is not useful as a tool for basing and building Doctrine upon.
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It can’t be forfeited can it...some people can go off track....but God always draws a true believer back...
I have gone off track..but I know God is still in my heart....he drew me back and here I am....didn’t realise how much I need him...in fact I’ve been starved.......Praise God....I didn’t draw myself back..the Lord did it..all Glory goes to him.
God will never leave or forsake me.
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I do not know I explained it to @Fastfredy0 that @jackrosie and I had the conversation on another thread.
Oh well, I ramp up my red x's daily it seems.... it is all good.
Oh well, I ramp up my red x's daily it seems.... it is all good.
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Agreeing that @Judges1318 teaches a false gospel where salvation is dependent on the believer and not Jesus.
Aside: Romans 8:28 thru Romans 9 is relevant to God choosing.
Analogy: All men are made from the same clump of clay. God molds them the way He wants. Some to be given faith and salvation, others will not be saved. God chooses whom to save and gives them varying gifts/characteristics. They HAVE NO MERIT; EVERYTHING they have has been given to them by God. 1 Cor. 4:7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive [from another]? And if in fact you received it [from God or someone else], why do you boast as if you had not received it [but had gained it by yourself]?
Re: God gives them faith (long explanation as it is VERY IMPORTANT:
Furthermore, if synergism (the belief that faith is the person's responsiblity) is embraced, then there is the very real but subtle danger that men could boast that they made use of God's grace or had more wisdom than the man who rejected Christ. They could boast that they are different for, unlike others, they responded to Christ. The autonomous natural man would, then, ultimately determine His own salvation, not God. Since a work is a purpose achieved by physical or mental exertion. To believe is a difficult task; the Bible says it is foolishness to the unsaved and no one seeks God. Finally, the context of the verse (2:1-10) forbids the idea that man has any positive role in his own salvation. The verses include expressions like, "by grace you have been saved," "this not from yourselves," "it is the gift of God," "not by works," "so that no one can boast," "we are God's work," "created in Christ Jesus to do good works," "which God prepared in advance for us to do."
I not sure I understand. I looked at my post and I don't see the context for you question. I don't see where I used the word SIMPLETON.
Depravity is the inability to do “good” in the manner which is pleasing to God (Hebrews 11:6). All men are instinctively evil. Depravity is what Gods sees when He looks at fallen man and not what He sees when He looks at Himself or those who have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. Total depravity means that there is nothing in fallen man which God can find pleasure or accept. Total depravity means that man is, in spirit and soul and body, the slave of sin and the captive of the Devil; "following the prince of the power of the air”. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God]." (Ephesians 2:2). It does not mean that there is nothing good in any unregenerate person as seen by himself or others. Man’s depravity demands a superhuman power for its cure. Thus, men are not saved by what may seem to them to be reasonable or unreasonable. Salvation is not a human undertaking; for man has a complete incapacity to respond to or to seek God on his own. Salvation is of God and unto God, and hence moves along lines and under conditions and necessities which are of a higher realm.
Aside: Those that think faith comes from themselves recognize the high hurdle of depravity which would seem to make it impossible for man to believe. To get around this problem, they use the concept of 'prevenient grace'; the idea that God, by his grace, removes enough 'depravity' that man can freely choose to believe. I don't hold to this view and even the proponents of the view can name but 4ish verses that vaguely support 'prevenient grace'.
Aside2: If you really want to get a handle on this stuff you should study Systematic Theology books. Maybe get 3 different authors. Systematic Theology takes the bible and organizes it by topics like: the attributes of God, the Trinity, Salvation, Sanctification, Angels, covenants, etc..
Information on each of these topics is spread throughout the Bible making it VERY DIFFICULT to understand the totality of scripture on a topic. Systematic Theology books relieve this issue for the most part.
Example: I read that the faith of a mustard seed can move mountains. I thought, I must have so little faith as I cannot move a mustard seed. Well, after studying these books where persons gathered all the information about prayer together I can see that there were other aspects of God's intention for prayer to consider like "according to His will".
Anyways, here is a book example. It is a fairly easy read and author presents varying views, though he sides with my point of view.
Wayne Grudem - Systematic Theology_ An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine (1994, Zondervan).epub
You will learn more from a book like this that 10 years of preaching ... more so if you study it like for school... I make notes, but that is me.
Analogy: All men are made from the same clump of clay. God molds them the way He wants. Some to be given faith and salvation, others will not be saved. God chooses whom to save and gives them varying gifts/characteristics. They HAVE NO MERIT; EVERYTHING they have has been given to them by God. 1 Cor. 4:7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive [from another]? And if in fact you received it [from God or someone else], why do you boast as if you had not received it [but had gained it by yourself]?
Re: God gives them faith (long explanation as it is VERY IMPORTANT:
- Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [referring to salvation through faith] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works (not founded upon anything in the believer himself), so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Furthermore, if synergism (the belief that faith is the person's responsiblity) is embraced, then there is the very real but subtle danger that men could boast that they made use of God's grace or had more wisdom than the man who rejected Christ. They could boast that they are different for, unlike others, they responded to Christ. The autonomous natural man would, then, ultimately determine His own salvation, not God. Since a work is a purpose achieved by physical or mental exertion. To believe is a difficult task; the Bible says it is foolishness to the unsaved and no one seeks God. Finally, the context of the verse (2:1-10) forbids the idea that man has any positive role in his own salvation. The verses include expressions like, "by grace you have been saved," "this not from yourselves," "it is the gift of God," "not by works," "so that no one can boast," "we are God's work," "created in Christ Jesus to do good works," "which God prepared in advance for us to do."
I not sure I understand. I looked at my post and I don't see the context for you question. I don't see where I used the word SIMPLETON.
Depravity is the inability to do “good” in the manner which is pleasing to God (Hebrews 11:6). All men are instinctively evil. Depravity is what Gods sees when He looks at fallen man and not what He sees when He looks at Himself or those who have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. Total depravity means that there is nothing in fallen man which God can find pleasure or accept. Total depravity means that man is, in spirit and soul and body, the slave of sin and the captive of the Devil; "following the prince of the power of the air”. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God]." (Ephesians 2:2). It does not mean that there is nothing good in any unregenerate person as seen by himself or others. Man’s depravity demands a superhuman power for its cure. Thus, men are not saved by what may seem to them to be reasonable or unreasonable. Salvation is not a human undertaking; for man has a complete incapacity to respond to or to seek God on his own. Salvation is of God and unto God, and hence moves along lines and under conditions and necessities which are of a higher realm.
Aside: Those that think faith comes from themselves recognize the high hurdle of depravity which would seem to make it impossible for man to believe. To get around this problem, they use the concept of 'prevenient grace'; the idea that God, by his grace, removes enough 'depravity' that man can freely choose to believe. I don't hold to this view and even the proponents of the view can name but 4ish verses that vaguely support 'prevenient grace'.
Aside2: If you really want to get a handle on this stuff you should study Systematic Theology books. Maybe get 3 different authors. Systematic Theology takes the bible and organizes it by topics like: the attributes of God, the Trinity, Salvation, Sanctification, Angels, covenants, etc..
Information on each of these topics is spread throughout the Bible making it VERY DIFFICULT to understand the totality of scripture on a topic. Systematic Theology books relieve this issue for the most part.
Example: I read that the faith of a mustard seed can move mountains. I thought, I must have so little faith as I cannot move a mustard seed. Well, after studying these books where persons gathered all the information about prayer together I can see that there were other aspects of God's intention for prayer to consider like "according to His will".
Anyways, here is a book example. It is a fairly easy read and author presents varying views, though he sides with my point of view.
Wayne Grudem - Systematic Theology_ An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine (1994, Zondervan).epub
You will learn more from a book like this that 10 years of preaching ... more so if you study it like for school... I make notes, but that is me.
E
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works-false.192473/post-4278699
This is getting all too complicated.
Do what you like red x every post of mine I really do not care... CC is not my life by any means and never will be.
This is getting all too complicated.
Do what you like red x every post of mine I really do not care... CC is not my life by any means and never will be.
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Respectfully, I disagree on this point.
Some reasons:
If Jesus died for everyone and everyone is not saved and He knows who will have faith, then He died in vain for a majority of people.
"Faith cometh by hearing gospel", not all mean hear the gospel ... therefore it makes not sense to die for those that cannot be saved.
People cannot chose God do to their depravity. Countless verses like NO ONE SEEKS GOD.
I could go on. We just disagree.
Some reasons:
If Jesus died for everyone and everyone is not saved and He knows who will have faith, then He died in vain for a majority of people.
"Faith cometh by hearing gospel", not all mean hear the gospel ... therefore it makes not sense to die for those that cannot be saved.
People cannot chose God do to their depravity. Countless verses like NO ONE SEEKS GOD.
I could go on. We just disagree.