The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jesus did say we need to have extra oil in our lamps for when the bridegroom comes.
He did but oil goes in lamps to illuminate the word. It has nothing to do with our works.
Right ... and if we look at the record in Ezekiel 47, we see the borders of the city called "the LORD is there":
Ezekiel 47:
15 And this shall be the border of the land toward the north side, from the great sea, the way of Hethlon, as men go to Zedad;
16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim, which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath; Hazarhatticon, which is by the coast of Hauran.
17 And the border from the sea shall be Hazarenan, the border of Damascus, and the north northward, and the border of Hamath. And this is the north side.
18 And the east side ye shall measure from Hauran, and from Damascus, and from Gilead, and from the land of Israel by Jordan, from the border unto the east sea. And this is the east side.
19 And the south side southward, from Tamar even to the waters of strife in Kadesh, the river to the great sea. And this is the south side southward.
20 The west side also shall be the great sea from the border, till a man come over against Hamath. This is the west side.
I believe Ezekiel describes a city on earth.
Additionally, look again at Revelation 20 at the time of the thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ:
Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone ...
As far as the city Abraham looked for, the city whose builder and maker is God, that is new heaven/new earth:
Revelation 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Please see Ezekiel 43:
10 “Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. 11 And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them.
This was a hypothetical temple. The people did not repent and did not receive this temple. Instead, they got the second temple once they returned from captivity in Babylon. As for Rev 21, is God dwelling with His church now?
There are a couple of reasons why I disagree. One is that all of the things mentioned in the Old Testaments are only shadows of the better things that are in the "kingdom of heaven" that Jesus brought in. The other reason is that I can't see a purpose for the literal city of Jerusalem to be rebuilt. That's like going backwards and bringing back the "shadow city" when the real is here... sort of like sacrificing literal lambs after the real Lamb has been sacrificed.
I don't think the thousand years literally means a thousand years any more than the cattle on a thousand hills literally means a thousand hills. I believe "thousand" is a phrase used symbolically to represent Jesus reigning over his people while he is seated at the right hand of the Father until all his enemies are made his footstool.
Heavenly Jerusalem is a city in the kingdom that comes without observation, you can't see it because it is within the hearts of men.
Matthew 22:44
‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”
When Christ was on earth, who were His enemies? What became of them?
‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”
When Christ was on earth, who were His enemies? What became of them?
Lk 19:
27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Jesus' enemies were slain in 70 AD.
27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Jesus' enemies were slain in 70 AD.
Two parallel kingdoms.
Quite simple.
Jesus the God of this world.
Satan the god of this world.
Jesus is King of Kings now . Not only in heaven but here on earth.
He left us The Holy Spirit and demons and satan obey the believer that is true and not a hypocrite.
Jesus rules and reigns here and now.
Big God... little devil.
Some have satan as bigger than God.
That is pitiful.
Mat 3:
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
It was all about the Jewish religious order of Christ's day. They received the wrath of God and the Lamb. They killed Jesus. John told them what would happen to them. The temple and Jerusalem were destroyed by fire.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
It was all about the Jewish religious order of Christ's day. They received the wrath of God and the Lamb. They killed Jesus. John told them what would happen to them. The temple and Jerusalem were destroyed by fire.
Hello PW, good to see you again.
The temple isn't hypothetical, it's spiritual, it is the body of Christ, the TRUE temple of God.
"And if they are ashamed....". The temple was to be built so that when they should looked upon this house, it should make them ashamed. The ones who do look toward this house, and are ashamed, they and only they can enter into this house.
(Eze 43:10) Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
(Eze 43:11) And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
This is a prophecy of the Jews seeing the body of Christ and being ashamed and provoked to jealous. This is the Jews that come to Christ.
If this was a fact, then Satan would already be in the Lake of Fire, and he would not be allowed to be "god" of this world. Do you see the absurdity of your position?
Indeed it is only at the Second Coming of Christ that He is identified as King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev 19). That is when He crushes all His enemies, and following that establishes His real, literal, visible, physical Kingdom of God on earth.
If you look closely at Ezekiel 47:12 you will note this is the "Eternal Kingdom" , exactly as seen in Revelation 22:1-2 below.
River of Life, Tree of Life, Fruit Every Month, Leaves of Tree For Healing/Medicine
"Same Exact Place"!
Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
Revelation 22:1-2KJV
22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
are you saying that you agree that up until the Protestant Reformation the truth was passed down through the succession of Bishops?
this is the larger picture, as I see it:
suppose the early church fathers thought that the book of Revelation talks mostly about future events (as opposed to current events encoded as future events).
those fathers weren't writing inspired scripture, so they could be wrong.
if a person believes that by the time of the Reformation, the Catholic Bishops had seriously drifted from the truth, when did that drift take place?
it was probably gradual, it would make sense that it began after the death of the apostles.
Jesus isn't King of this earth yet?
Your claim is laughable, Jesus Christ created it all!
Collisions 1:16KJV
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Exactly!
Like saying Donald J. Trump isn't president of the USA, because Democrats don't see him as president.
Well put, end of story!
In secret societies, obelisks are known as Baal's shaft. It's sort of like how covering the right eye shows affiliation with the illuminatti. It's the hidden language of symbolism that they speak. A church steeple is an obelisk, the cross on top of it represents the X chromosome. In other words, the church steeple doesn't come from the bible, it comes from the secret societies, it is their mark of ownership.
Baal's shaft is used for procreation, the X chromosome represents EARTHLY DNA, not heavenly DNA. Those that worship under this symbol are worhipping Baal, and are children (x chromosome) of Baal, or as the bible frequently says, children of Belial.
I'm not saying that every person that goes to a church that has a steeple is a child of Belial, I'm saying that the church is advertising, probably unwittingly, that they are bought and paid for by the secret societies and they are preaching THEIR gospel.
When Jesus died on the cross, he made an open display of his enemies. The cross that he hung on represents FIRST BORN DNA, our flesh, him being LIFTED up represents the obelisk, him dying at 33 years old represents antichrist, him being crucified naked.... It goes on and on, every detail of his death on the cross was showing the enemies that he conquered in his death.
Have you initiated into the secret societies and renounced it?
Freemasonry, Odd Fellows, Knights Of Columbus, Etc
I fully agree that these "Wolves" in sheeps clothing have entered the doors of the Church.
Yes western society is largely influenced by these societies, USA largely no question.