The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[John146]

Jesus returned from the grave with POWER over death and he brought back ten thousands (cloud of witnesses) dead Old Testament saints with him. So yes I truly believe that.

The bible doesn't say storm clouds, or rain clouds or clouds in the sky, it just says clouds. Clouds can be a cloud of anything, and a cloud of witnesses is one of them.

Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

More spiritualizing...taking Scripture literally will not fit your theology.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus returned from the grave with POWER over death and he brought back ten thousands (cloud of witnesses) dead Old Testament saints with him. So yes I truly believe that.

The bible doesn't say storm clouds, or rain clouds or clouds in the sky, it just says clouds. Clouds can be a cloud of anything, and a cloud of witnesses is one of them.

Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Your claim is way out on left field, comparable to the "Cults" in my opinion.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't know if Jesus Christ comes again or not, God hasn't shown me that in the bible yet, but as I said to TDW, I surely hope that there will be a rapture and second coming.

In my opinion those verses in your response are about Jesus coming at his resurrection.

You have'nt seen a literal second coming in the bible yet?

"Full Preterism" is viewed as heresy, and I fully agree with many on this claim.

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim is 100% false, and in major error.

Matthew 24:29-31 below is about the "Literal Future Second Coming" of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven

You openly "Deny" the second coming seen below, "Major Error"

Matthew 24:29-31KkJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Just a couple of chapters later, Jesus told the high priest that HEREAFTER his crucifixtion, he would see the Son of man SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Was Jesus lying? Does hereafter mean 2000 years AFTER the high priest was dead? Does Jesus have to wait 2000 years to sit at the right hand of the Father?

If this isn't the resurrection then explain to me HOW it's not the resurrection.

 

[KJV1611]

More spiritualizing...taking Scripture literally will not fit your theology.

So you are saying beyond the shadow of a doubt that clouds means clouds in the sky and not clouds of witnesses. How do you know that? Seriously, what are you basing your claim on?

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim is way out on left field, comparable to the "Cults" in my opinion.

The Jews thought Jesus was heretic and they killed him.

 

[KJV1611]

@Truth7t7 and @John146

(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

How do you two spiritualize this verse away? Jesus talking to the twelve disciples says when those wicked Jews persecute you in this city, flee to another city, but I'll tell you, before you have time to go to all the cities of Israel, the Son of man WILL BE COME.

 

[John146]

So you are saying beyond the shadow of a doubt that clouds means clouds in the sky and not clouds of witnesses. How do you know that? Seriously, what are you basing your claim on?

He didn’t come in a cloud of witnesses. Who saw His resurrection? Who are His holy angels a metaphor for?

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

 

[KJV1611]

He didn’t come in a cloud of witnesses. Who saw His resurrection? Who are His holy angels a metaphor for?

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

What do you call the Old Testament saints that rose with Jesus?

 

[John146]

@Truth7t7 and @John146

(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

How do you two spiritualize this verse away? Jesus talking to the twelve disciples says when those wicked Jews persecute you in this city, flee to another city, but I'll tell you, before you have time to go to all the cities of Israel, the Son of man WILL BE COME.

Did this even occur yet? Did they actually go to all the cities of Israel? And how does scripture define the cities of Israel?

 

[Truth7t7]

Just a couple of chapters later, Jesus told the high priest that HEREAFTER his crucifixtion, he would see the Son of man SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Was Jesus lying? Does hereafter mean 2000 years AFTER the high priest was dead? Does Jesus have to wait 2000 years to sit at the right hand of the Father?

If this isn't the resurrection then explain to me HOW it's not the resurrection.

You deny that a future "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ is seen in the Holy Bible, "The Blessed Hope"

Your views are "Full Preterism" and this is deemed as complete Heresy by many, and I fully agree.

 

[John146]

What do you call the Old Testament saints that rose with Jesus?

Not angels, but resurrected men. We do not turn into angels in the resurrection.

 

[KJV1611]

Did this even occur yet? Did they actually go to all the cities of Israel? And how does scripture define the cities of Israel?

Peter was the disciple to the Jews, do you think he half did his job and didn't evangelize all of Israel?

 

[John146]

What do you call the Old Testament saints that rose with Jesus?

The following has not occurred. Rome was in total control. There were no rumors of wars at that time. And nation did not rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

 

[KJV1611]

Not angels, but resurrected men. We do not turn into angels in the resurrection.

Are they witnesses of the power of Christ?

 

[John146]

Peter was the disciple to the Jews, do you think he half did his job and didn't evangelize all of Israel?

Peter didn’t do a lot of things he was directed to do. One reason why the persecution occurred was because the disciples were not obeying the Lord’s command. They were only in Jerusalem.

 

[KJV1611]

I got to finish building my chicken coop fellas, see yall later.

 

[John146]

Are they witnesses of the power of Christ?

Did they come with Him? So many holes...

 

[Truth7t7]

The following has not occurred. Rome was in total control. There were no rumors of wars at that time. And nation did not rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

John one of the key verses is Matthew 24:21 in disproving 70AD fulfillment, a tribulation that will never be seen in earth's history?

World War II saw 70 million casualties, with 6 million being Jews, this silences the preterist claim of the 70AD Roman destruction of Jerusalem fulfilling Matthew 24:21 "No, Nor Ever Shall Be"

Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Guojing]

Hebrews to Revelation is for Israel only, and related to the tribulation?

A Big Pinocchio Fairy Tale!

Do you believe that, during the Tribulation, this verse applies with regards to salvation?

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.