The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[KJV1611]

That's what I'm saying [the point of my post ]...

except I'm showing the correlation between the TIMING of Rev 19 and the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words (which YOU seem to be saying [i.e. Rev19] would have occurred AT THE CROSS point-in-time. No! [take Vial #6, for example... how do you say that took place... and BEFORE the Cross, since you're saying Rev19 happened [back] then as the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in that Isa passage (at the CROSS, per your view)])

I think I've told you before that I only understand the first 10 chapters of Revelation so I really con't comment on Revelation 19. All I know is, with all the other stuff that dispensationalist are wrong on, I highly doubt they are right on anything in the book of Revelation.

 

[Truth7t7]

You, like me, still carry some dispensational baggage.

AD 70 was the wrath of God. The time when Christ died on the cross was great tribulation. There was a great earthquake, dead people came out of the ground and three days later came back to life and walked amongst the people and also the sun went out at mid-day on the day Christ died. That was the great tribulation that the world will NEVER SEE AGAIN.

Jesus Christ dying on the cross wasn't the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21, and you run from Matthew 24:29-31 in the "Second Coming" that takes place after thus "Future" tribulation.

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim that Daniels Abomination in Daniel 9:27 as referenced in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in the death of Jesus Christ is 100% false

As clearly seen below, the future littlehorn, The Beast, will be present until the consummation/The End and this didnttake place at the death of Jesus Christ

Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 - Christ confirmed the covenant that God made with Abraham when he died on the cross. When he died on the cross, the need for animal sacrifices ended.

And for ALL the abominations committed by the Jews, Jesus made them desolate, desolate even to the consummation of them in AD 70. And that which was written by prophets was poured out on the desolate (the Jews).

 

[KJV1611]

Jesus Christ dying on the cross wasn't the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21, and you run from Matthew 24:29-31 in the "Second Coming" that takes place after thus "Future" tribulation.

I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, I'm just telling you what I've found to be true.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I think I've told you before that I only understand the first 10 chapters of Revelation so I really con't comment on Revelation 19. All I know is, with all the other stuff that dispensationalist are wrong on, I highly doubt they are right on anything in the book of Revelation.

Okay, so you are saying that you're not sure whether Revelation 19 [esp. vv.19,21 I mentioned] is His return? [or, like in 1Tim6:15's "future tense" "shall shew [/openly manifest, openly display]" where it says "King of kings and Lord of lords" in both of these passages only [and found in Rev17:14 in reverse order, and saying, "they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful"]).

What do you believe is being depicted in Rev19:11-16, for example? (not to mention, v.20? )

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, I'm just telling you what I've found to be true.

Do you deny the "Literal" Second Coming of Jesus Christ is seen below, don't run from a "Direct" response.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[KJV1611]

Jesus Christ dying on the cross wasn't the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21, and you run from Matthew 24:29-31 in the "Second Coming" that takes place after thus "Future" tribulation.

(Mat 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Mat 24:30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts says the events around Pentecost were the fulfillment of what Joel said. Acts includes the sun turning to darkness and moon into blood BEFORE the day of the Lord comes.

I don't even need those verses to convince me that it happened then because Jesus is THE SUN of righteousness and that sun turned to darkness for the Jews. I also know that ISRAEL was the moon that REFLECTED the light of the sun. She doesn't do that anymore.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 9:27 - Christ confirmed the covenant that God made with Abraham when he died on the cross. When he died on the cross, the need for animal sacrifices ended.

And for ALL the abominations committed by the Jews, Jesus made them desolate, desolate even to the consummation of them in AD 70. And that which was written by prophets was poured out on the desolate (the Jews).

Your claim that Daniel 9:27 "Pouring Upon The Desolate" was fulfilled in 70AD is false, as clearly seen below this cup is "Future"

Psalm 75:8KJV
8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Revelation 14:10KJV
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[KJV1611]

Okay, so you are saying that you're not sure whether Revelation 19 [esp. vv.19,21 I mentioned] is His return? [or, like in 1Tim6:15's "future tense" "shall shew [/openly manifest, openly display]" where it says "King of kings and Lord of lords" in both of these passages only [and found in Rev17:14 in reverse order, and saying, "they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful"]).

What do you believe is being depicted in Rev19:11-16, for example? (not to mention, v.20? )

The only thing I'm sure of in Rev 19 is that whore who was drunk with the blood of the saints was Israel.

I'm also sure that the wedding feast of the lamb is the believer eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood (his word). That has been going on for 2000 years.

The only thing I can say about the last few verses is that the whore rode that beast and I think the beast was the religious leadership of the Jews. I'm just guessing on all of this so you can't hold me to it.

 

[Truth7t7]

(Mat 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Mat 24:30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts says the events around Pentecost were the fulfillment of what Joel said. Acts includes the sun turning to darkness and moon into blood BEFORE the day of the Lord comes.

I don't even need those verses to convince me that it happened then because Jesus is THE SUN of righteousness and that sun turned to darkness for the Jews. I also know that ISRAEL was the moon that REFLECTED the light of the sun. She doesn't do that anymore.

Once again, you dont answer the second coming of Jesus Christ seen in Matthew 24:29-31, why do you run from a direct response?

 

[KJV1611]

Your claim that Daniel 9:27 "Pouring Upon The Desolate" was fulfilled in 70AD is false, as clearly seen below this cup is "Future"

Psalm 75:8KJV
8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them.

Revelation 14:10KJV
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

I don't follow you on this one. Psalm 75:8 is talking about God pouring out a MIXTURE, the one in Revelation is WITHOUT MIXTURE.

Also the wicked wring out the dregs of the mixture so they have can have a small taste. God isn't forcing them to drink the dregs, they are doing it voluntarily.

 

[KJV1611]

Once again, you dont answer the second coming of Jesus Christ seen in Matthew 24:29-31, why do you run from a direct response?

I'm not running from it, those verses are about his resurrection and RETURN from the grave.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The only thing I'm sure of in Rev 19 is that whore who was drunk with the blood of the saints was Israel.
[...]
The only thing I can say about the last few verses is that the whore rode that beast and I think the beast was the religious leadership of the Jews. I'm just guessing on all of this so you can't hold me to it.

Okay, I won't hold you to it ...

but I do want to ask (in view of what you've put), why then does Rev17:8b say, "[when they behold] the beast that WAS, and IS NOT, and YET SHALL BE [FUTURE tense]" ? (since you seem to be referencing Chpt17 ^ )

How are you seeing the "and IS NOT" part? ("IS NOT" at the time when written)

And the "and yet SHALL BE [FUTURE tense]"? (and it IS in the "future tense" - very last line, ["F"] in the right-hand column - https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-8.htm )

 

[KJV1611]

Okay, I won't hold you to it ...

but I do want to ask (in view of what you've put), why then does Rev17:8b say, "[when they behold] the beast that WAS, and IS NOT, and YET SHALL BE [FUTURE tense]" ? (since you seem to be referencing Chpt17 ^ )

How are you seeing the "and IS NOT" part? ("IS NOT" at the time when written)

And the "and yet SHALL BE [FUTURE tense]"? (and it IS in the "future tense" - very last line, ["F"] in the right-hand column - https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/17-8.htm )

It could be Israel. They were, they were not and now they're here again. I can't say for sure whether all of that is past or future until I see it some where else in scripture. When I see things at least twice I'm scripture, I can be reasonably sure that my view is right.

I truly wish that the rapture and "second coming" of Christ was real because we are headed for pure hell in this country and the world for that matter in the next few months unless things change DRASTICALLY.

 

[John146]

I'm not running from it, those verses are about his resurrection and RETURN from the grave.

Coming in the clouds with power and great glory is His resurrection? You really believe that?

 

[John146]

The only thing I'm sure of in Rev 19 is that whore who was drunk with the blood of the saints was Israel.

I'm also sure that the wedding feast of the lamb is the believer eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood (his word). That has been going on for 2000 years.

The only thing I can say about the last few verses is that the whore rode that beast and I think the beast was the religious leadership of the Jews. I'm just guessing on all of this so you can't hold me to it.

Remember what I said about spiritualizing Matthew 24?

 

[KJV1611]

Do you deny the "Literal" Second Coming of Jesus Christ is seen below, don't run from a "Direct" response.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I don't know if Jesus Christ comes again or not, God hasn't shown me that in the bible yet, but as I said to TDW, I surely hope that there will be a rapture and second coming.

In my opinion those verses in your response are about Jesus coming at his resurrection.

 

[KJV1611]

Coming in the clouds with power and great glory is His resurrection? You really believe that?

Jesus returned from the grave with POWER over death and he brought back ten thousands (cloud of witnesses) dead Old Testament saints with him. So yes I truly believe that.

The bible doesn't say storm clouds, or rain clouds or clouds in the sky, it just says clouds. Clouds can be a cloud of anything, and a cloud of witnesses is one of them.

Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

 

[KJV1611]

Remember what I said about spiritualizing Matthew 24?

Yes but what is your point?

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not running from it, those verses are about his resurrection and RETURN from the grave.

Your claim is 100% false, and in major error.

Matthew 24:29-31 below is about the "Literal Future Second Coming" of Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven

You openly "Deny" the second coming seen below, "Major Error"

Matthew 24:29-31KkJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.