The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Remember my other post (not the one below) showing how the following two passages correlate time-wise:
--Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 CORRELATING [time-wise] WITH
--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] (note: where this passage shows [JUST LIKE Rev19 & Rev20 does!] that a TIME PERIOD comes BETWEEN the FIRST and the SECOND "PUNISH" words of this passage)
In view of that ^ , consider the following post:
Consider the following... notes on the word "DISSOLVED" in 2 Peter 3:10-12 [2x in kjv, 3x in other versions] -
Isaiah 24 -
17 Terror and pit and snare await you,
O dwellers of the earth.
18 Whoever flees the sound of terror
will fall into a pit,
and whoever climbs from the pit
will be caught in a trap.
For the windows of heaven are open,
and the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is utterly broken apart,
the earth is split open ['clean dissolved' in the kjv; H6565 - parar],
the earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth staggers like a drunkard
and sways like a shack.
Earth’s rebellion weighs it down,
and it falls, never to rise again.
21 In that day the LORD will punish [<--comp Rev19:19,21/15:14-16/20:5]
the host of heaven above
and the kings of the earth below.
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon
and punished after many days. [<--comp this SECOND "punish" word with the LATER GWTj Rev20:11-15]
23 The moon will be confounded
and the sun will be ashamed;
for the LORD of Hosts will reign
on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,
and before His elders with great glory. [<--the "GLORIOUS" kingdom, on the earth; the EARTHLY MK age (see Matt25:31-34 [for the "WHEN" of it] and Matt19:28!)]
[and]
Isaiah 34, in part [be sure to read BOTH CHPTS of chpt 34 AND chpt 35, not just verse 4!] -
Judgment on the Nations
1 Come near, O nations, to listen;
pay attention, O peoples.
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it,
the world and all that springs from it.
2 The LORD is angry with all the nations
and furious with all their armies.
He will devote them to destruction;a
He will give them over to slaughter.
3 Their slain will be left unburied,
and the stench of their corpses will rise;
the mountains will flow with their blood.
4 All the stars of heaven will be dissolved.
The skies will be rolled up like a scroll,
and all their stars will fall [comp the usage of the word "stars" in Dan8:10-12]
like withered leaves from the vine,
like foliage from the fig tree.
[again, see the remainder of these two chapters, and not just verse 4a Peter points out, to get the "whole picture"]
[and]
Psalm 75:3 kjv -
3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
[and all of Ps75 in the bsb version]
God’s Righteous Judgment
(Romans 2:1-16; Jude 1:3-16)
For the choirmaster: To the tune of “Do not Destroy.” A Psalm of Asaph. A song.
1 We give thanks to You, O God;
we give thanks, for Your Name is near.
The people declare Your wondrous works.
2 “When I choose a time,
I will judge fairly.
3 When the earth and all its dwellers quake ['are dissolved' in the kjv ^ ; H4127 - mug - to melt--Joshua 2:24 uses this word, translated in the kjv as "DO FAINT" - https://biblehub.com/text/joshua/2-24.htm ],
it is I who bear up its pillars.
Selah
4 I say to the proud, ‘Do not boast,’
and to the wicked, ‘Do not lift up your horn.
5 Do not lift up your horn against heaven
or speak with an outstretched neck.’”
6 For exaltation comes neither from east nor west,
nor out of the desert,
7 but it is God who judges;
He brings down one and exalts another.
8 For a cup is in the hand of the LORD,
full of foaming wine mixed with spices.
He pours from His cup,
and all the wicked of the earth
drink it down it to the dregs.
9 But I will proclaim Him forever;
I will sing praise to the God of Jacob.
10 “All the horns of the wicked I will cut off,
but the horns of the righteous will be exalted.”
[and]
2 Peter 3:11-12 - ["dissolved" is used 3x in the ylt version, so in v.10 there also, I've included here]
10 [ylt] and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up [*note: see below].
11 [kjv] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 [kjv] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[*note on v.10's phrase: "shall be burnt up" is the Greek word "G2147 - heurethēsetai"; but the words in the text can be translated "[works] NOT [G3756] [WILL] BE FOUND [G2147]" -- (see quoting BibleHub, below)
"3756 [e]
ouch
[οὐχ]
not
Adv
2147 [e]
heurethēsetai
εὑρεθήσεται .
will be found
V-FIP-3S
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3-10.htm ]
--Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 CORRELATING [time-wise] WITH
--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] (note: where this passage shows [JUST LIKE Rev19 & Rev20 does!] that a TIME PERIOD comes BETWEEN the FIRST and the SECOND "PUNISH" words of this passage)
In view of that ^ , consider the following post:
Consider the following... notes on the word "DISSOLVED" in 2 Peter 3:10-12 [2x in kjv, 3x in other versions] -
Isaiah 24 -
17 Terror and pit and snare await you,
O dwellers of the earth.
18 Whoever flees the sound of terror
will fall into a pit,
and whoever climbs from the pit
will be caught in a trap.
For the windows of heaven are open,
and the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is utterly broken apart,
the earth is split open ['clean dissolved' in the kjv; H6565 - parar],
the earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth staggers like a drunkard
and sways like a shack.
Earth’s rebellion weighs it down,
and it falls, never to rise again.
21 In that day the LORD will punish [<--comp Rev19:19,21/15:14-16/20:5]
the host of heaven above
and the kings of the earth below.
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit.
They will be confined to a dungeon
and punished after many days. [<--comp this SECOND "punish" word with the LATER GWTj Rev20:11-15]
23 The moon will be confounded
and the sun will be ashamed;
for the LORD of Hosts will reign
on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,
and before His elders with great glory. [<--the "GLORIOUS" kingdom, on the earth; the EARTHLY MK age (see Matt25:31-34 [for the "WHEN" of it] and Matt19:28!)]
[and]
Isaiah 34, in part [be sure to read BOTH CHPTS of chpt 34 AND chpt 35, not just verse 4!] -
Judgment on the Nations
1 Come near, O nations, to listen;
pay attention, O peoples.
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it,
the world and all that springs from it.
2 The LORD is angry with all the nations
and furious with all their armies.
He will devote them to destruction;a
He will give them over to slaughter.
3 Their slain will be left unburied,
and the stench of their corpses will rise;
the mountains will flow with their blood.
4 All the stars of heaven will be dissolved.
The skies will be rolled up like a scroll,
and all their stars will fall [comp the usage of the word "stars" in Dan8:10-12]
like withered leaves from the vine,
like foliage from the fig tree.
[again, see the remainder of these two chapters, and not just verse 4a Peter points out, to get the "whole picture"]
[and]
Psalm 75:3 kjv -
3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
[and all of Ps75 in the bsb version]
God’s Righteous Judgment
(Romans 2:1-16; Jude 1:3-16)
For the choirmaster: To the tune of “Do not Destroy.” A Psalm of Asaph. A song.
1 We give thanks to You, O God;
we give thanks, for Your Name is near.
The people declare Your wondrous works.
2 “When I choose a time,
I will judge fairly.
3 When the earth and all its dwellers quake ['are dissolved' in the kjv ^ ; H4127 - mug - to melt--Joshua 2:24 uses this word, translated in the kjv as "DO FAINT" - https://biblehub.com/text/joshua/2-24.htm ],
it is I who bear up its pillars.
Selah
4 I say to the proud, ‘Do not boast,’
and to the wicked, ‘Do not lift up your horn.
5 Do not lift up your horn against heaven
or speak with an outstretched neck.’”
6 For exaltation comes neither from east nor west,
nor out of the desert,
7 but it is God who judges;
He brings down one and exalts another.
8 For a cup is in the hand of the LORD,
full of foaming wine mixed with spices.
He pours from His cup,
and all the wicked of the earth
drink it down it to the dregs.
9 But I will proclaim Him forever;
I will sing praise to the God of Jacob.
10 “All the horns of the wicked I will cut off,
but the horns of the righteous will be exalted.”
[and]
2 Peter 3:11-12 - ["dissolved" is used 3x in the ylt version, so in v.10 there also, I've included here]
10 [ylt] and it will come -- the day of the Lord -- as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up [*note: see below].
11 [kjv] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 [kjv] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[*note on v.10's phrase: "shall be burnt up" is the Greek word "G2147 - heurethēsetai"; but the words in the text can be translated "[works] NOT [G3756] [WILL] BE FOUND [G2147]" -- (see quoting BibleHub, below)
"3756 [e]
ouch
[οὐχ]
not
Adv
2147 [e]
heurethēsetai
εὑρεθήσεται .
will be found
V-FIP-3S
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3-10.htm ]
Here’s a bit of the chapter. Did any of this occur 2,000 years ago?
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Consider the following (which I've posted about before):
the 144,000 (of all the tribes of Israel [singular nation] that are listed there in Rev7 [and who are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude ... of ALL the nations [PLURAL]," who btw are also not "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]), in Rev14:4's wording, says they [the 144,000] are "FIRSTFRUIT to God and to the Lamb [Arnio - G721 (used only one other place outside the Book of Rev [note "where" used])]."
In Leviticus 23, there are TWO [DISTINCT] instances of the word "firstfruit" (Jesus Himself fulfilled the FIRST of these two, in Lev23:10-12 ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day... that very day [John 20:17 - "I ASCEND [active]"]).
The SECOND of these TWO "firstfruit" words in this Lev23 chapter parallel the WORDING as found in Rev14:4 (as shown above ^ ) where Lev23:17 says, "TWO LOAVES" and "BAKEN WITH LEAVEN"... and "they are firstfruit UNTO THE LORD"
So I do not believe "leaven" is in EVERY CASE a negative... In THIS CASE (and I do believe these passages are PARALLEL ^ ), it certainly is not.
[but notice carefully what 1Cor5:7 is saying to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (stated factually [legally/positionally]): "YE are UNleavened"; and note how James 1:18 says, "Having willed it, He brought us forth by the word of truth, for us to be a kind [G5100 - 'A CERTAIN one' / 'A CERTAIN KIND'] of firstfruits of His creatures." There are at least TWO DISTINCT "kind" of "FIRSTFRUIT," according to Leviticus 23! And 23:17 correlates with "the 144,000" and the other kind correlates with what I just pointed out that 1Cor5:7 SAYS "we/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" do, see ]
the 144,000 (of all the tribes of Israel [singular nation] that are listed there in Rev7 [and who are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude ... of ALL the nations [PLURAL]," who btw are also not "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]), in Rev14:4's wording, says they [the 144,000] are "FIRSTFRUIT to God and to the Lamb [Arnio - G721 (used only one other place outside the Book of Rev [note "where" used])]."
In Leviticus 23, there are TWO [DISTINCT] instances of the word "firstfruit" (Jesus Himself fulfilled the FIRST of these two, in Lev23:10-12 ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day... that very day [John 20:17 - "I ASCEND [active]"]).
The SECOND of these TWO "firstfruit" words in this Lev23 chapter parallel the WORDING as found in Rev14:4 (as shown above ^ ) where Lev23:17 says, "TWO LOAVES" and "BAKEN WITH LEAVEN"... and "they are firstfruit UNTO THE LORD"
So I do not believe "leaven" is in EVERY CASE a negative... In THIS CASE (and I do believe these passages are PARALLEL ^ ), it certainly is not.
[but notice carefully what 1Cor5:7 is saying to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (stated factually [legally/positionally]): "YE are UNleavened"; and note how James 1:18 says, "Having willed it, He brought us forth by the word of truth, for us to be a kind [G5100 - 'A CERTAIN one' / 'A CERTAIN KIND'] of firstfruits of His creatures." There are at least TWO DISTINCT "kind" of "FIRSTFRUIT," according to Leviticus 23! And 23:17 correlates with "the 144,000" and the other kind correlates with what I just pointed out that 1Cor5:7 SAYS "we/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" do, see
]I was also blindly following dispensationalism for 20 years.
I see Matthew 24 as "Future", why?
Matthew 24:15 Daniels Abomination causes the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus Christ Returns Immediately After this tribulation.
The three events are tied together "inseparable"
You can't have a 70AD "Great Tribulation" and Jesus Christ returning "Immediately After" in a future event 2,000+ years and waiting.
I see Matthew 24 as "Future", why?
Matthew 24:15 Daniels Abomination causes the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus Christ Returns Immediately After this tribulation.
The three events are tied together "inseparable"
You can't have a 70AD "Great Tribulation" and Jesus Christ returning "Immediately After" in a future event 2,000+ years and waiting.
-
1
- Show all
Your claim is false, Matthew 24 is Future!
Matthew 24:15 Daniels Abomination causes the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus Christ Returns Immediately After this tribulation in Matthew 24:21
The three events are tied together "inseparable"
You can't have a 70AD "Great Tribulation" and Jesus Christ returning "Immediately After" in a future event 2,000+ years and waiting.
Do you deny "The Literal Second Coming Below"?
Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:15 Daniels Abomination causes the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21
Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus Christ Returns Immediately After this tribulation in Matthew 24:21
The three events are tied together "inseparable"
You can't have a 70AD "Great Tribulation" and Jesus Christ returning "Immediately After" in a future event 2,000+ years and waiting.
Do you deny "The Literal Second Coming Below"?
Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
-
1
- Show all
"The beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are also "inseparable" to the Matt24:29-31 return of Christ to the earth, as it is [both things are] TIED to the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (per Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1[7:3]), with the SEALS of Rev6 being the EQUIVALENT OF "the beginning of birth PANGS" (at the START of the tribulation period when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" by opening the FIRST SEAL [i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 and Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" (parallel to 2Th2:9a's "whose COMING..." re: "the man of sin"... "IN HIS TIME" ])
when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" by opening the FIRST SEAL [i.e. the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 and Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" (parallel to 2Th2:9a's "whose COMING..." re: "the man of sin"... "IN HIS TIME" ])I'm not sure what you're getting at here TDW. This is the same story repeated over and over in the bible. It's the story of Jesus coming and taking the kingdom from the Jews. The curse wreaking havoc in Isaiah 24 is Jesus. "And after many days" is AD 70.
Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The literal earth isn't going to disolve away any more than the literal moon is going to be confounded and the literal sun being ashamed. Do you think the literal moon can be confounded or the literal sun can be ashamed?
Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The literal earth isn't going to disolve away any more than the literal moon is going to be confounded and the literal sun being ashamed. Do you think the literal moon can be confounded or the literal sun can be ashamed?
Do you know about the number patterns in the KJV? They are the signature of God validating the KJV was written from outside of this realm of existence. The kingdom of heaven is found exactly 33 times in the KJV and the kingdom of God is found exactly 70 times. Both of the numbers have sginificant meaning in scripture. If only one phrase or the other had been used, the number would've been 103. That number has no meaning in scripture as far as I know.
Besides all that, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence by those wicked Jews that you guys worship. How is this any different than LEAVEN being found in the kingdom of God?
Mat_11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Or even a better example. FALSE BELIEVERS (tares) are among the wheat in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are two different ways to speak about the exact same thing.
Besides all that, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence by those wicked Jews that you guys worship. How is this any different than LEAVEN being found in the kingdom of God?
Mat_11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Or even a better example. FALSE BELIEVERS (tares) are among the wheat in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are two different ways to speak about the exact same thing.
You deny the very clear and simple teaching of scripture, and you State those that follow dispensationalism are deceived
Just as Noah's flood was a "Literal Event" this existing earth is waiting in reservation for fire destruction, being dissolved in the Lord's final judgement "Literally" as seen below.
2 Peter 3:1-13KJV
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Just as Noah's flood was a "Literal Event" this existing earth is waiting in reservation for fire destruction, being dissolved in the Lord's final judgement "Literally" as seen below.
2 Peter 3:1-13KJV
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
That's what I'm saying [the point of my post ]...
except I'm showing the correlation between the TIMING of Rev 19 and the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words (which YOU seem to be saying [i.e. Rev19] would have occurred AT THE CROSS point-in-time. No! [take Vial #6, for example... how do you say that took place... and BEFORE the Cross, since you're saying Rev19 happened [back] then as the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in that Isa passage (at the CROSS, per your view)])
]...except I'm showing the correlation between the TIMING of Rev 19 and the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words (which YOU seem to be saying [i.e. Rev19] would have occurred AT THE CROSS point-in-time. No! [take Vial #6, for example... how do you say that took place... and BEFORE the Cross, since you're saying Rev19 happened [back] then as the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in that Isa passage (at the CROSS, per your view)])
Consider the following (which I've posted about before):
the 144,000 (of all the tribes of Israel [singular nation] that are listed there in Rev7 [and who are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude ... of ALL the nations [PLURAL]," who btw are also not "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]), in Rev14:4's wording, says they [the 144,000] are "FIRSTFRUIT to God and to the Lamb [Arnio - G721 (used only one other place outside the Book of Rev [note "where" used])]."
In Leviticus 23, there are TWO [DISTINCT] instances of the word "firstfruit" (Jesus Himself fulfilled the FIRST of these two, in Lev23:10-12 ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day... that very day [John 20:17 - "I ASCEND [active]"]).
The SECOND of these TWO "firstfruit" words in this Lev23 chapter parallel the WORDING as found in Rev14:4 (as shown above ^ ) where Lev23:17 says, "TWO LOAVES" and "BAKEN WITH LEAVEN"... and "they are firstfruit UNTO THE LORD"
So I do not believe "leaven" is in EVERY CASE a negative... In THIS CASE (and I do believe these passages are PARALLEL ^ ), it certainly is not.
[but notice carefully what 1Cor5:7 is saying to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (stated factually [legally/positionally]): "YE are UNleavened"; and note how James 1:18 says, "Having willed it, He brought us forth by the word of truth, for us to be a kind [G5100 - 'A CERTAIN one' / 'A CERTAIN KIND'] of firstfruits of His creatures." There are at least TWO DISTINCT "kind" of "FIRSTFRUIT," according to Leviticus 23! And 23:17 correlates with "the 144,000" and the other kind correlates with what I just pointed out that 1Cor5:7 SAYS "we/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" do, see ]
the 144,000 (of all the tribes of Israel [singular nation] that are listed there in Rev7 [and who are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude ... of ALL the nations [PLURAL]," who btw are also not "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]), in Rev14:4's wording, says they [the 144,000] are "FIRSTFRUIT to God and to the Lamb [Arnio - G721 (used only one other place outside the Book of Rev [note "where" used])]."
In Leviticus 23, there are TWO [DISTINCT] instances of the word "firstfruit" (Jesus Himself fulfilled the FIRST of these two, in Lev23:10-12 ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day... that very day [John 20:17 - "I ASCEND [active]"]).
The SECOND of these TWO "firstfruit" words in this Lev23 chapter parallel the WORDING as found in Rev14:4 (as shown above ^ ) where Lev23:17 says, "TWO LOAVES" and "BAKEN WITH LEAVEN"... and "they are firstfruit UNTO THE LORD"
So I do not believe "leaven" is in EVERY CASE a negative... In THIS CASE (and I do believe these passages are PARALLEL ^ ), it certainly is not.
[but notice carefully what 1Cor5:7 is saying to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (stated factually [legally/positionally]): "YE are UNleavened"; and note how James 1:18 says, "Having willed it, He brought us forth by the word of truth, for us to be a kind [G5100 - 'A CERTAIN one' / 'A CERTAIN KIND'] of firstfruits of His creatures." There are at least TWO DISTINCT "kind" of "FIRSTFRUIT," according to Leviticus 23! And 23:17 correlates with "the 144,000" and the other kind correlates with what I just pointed out that 1Cor5:7 SAYS "we/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" do, see
]
Well Jesus was an abomination to the Jews according to the bible and Jesus also left Jerusalem desolate according to the bible. So it is accurate to say that killing the abomination (Jesus) is exactly why Jerusalem was left desolate. There is no greater abomination than killing the Son of God that came to save you.
You, like me, still carry some dispensational baggage.
AD 70 was the wrath of God. The time when Christ died on the cross was great tribulation. There was a great earthquake, dead people came out of the ground and three days later came back to life and walked amongst the people and also the sun went out at mid-day on the day Christ died. That was the great tribulation that the world will NEVER SEE AGAIN.
AD 70 was the wrath of God. The time when Christ died on the cross was great tribulation. There was a great earthquake, dead people came out of the ground and three days later came back to life and walked amongst the people and also the sun went out at mid-day on the day Christ died. That was the great tribulation that the world will NEVER SEE AGAIN.
You deny the very clear and simple teaching of scripture, and you State those that follow dispensationalism are deceived
Just as Noah's flood was a "Literal Event" this existing earth is waiting in reservation for fire destruction, being dissolved in the Lord's final judgement "Literally" as seen below.
2 Peter 3:1-13KJV
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Just as Noah's flood was a "Literal Event" this existing earth is waiting in reservation for fire destruction, being dissolved in the Lord's final judgement "Literally" as seen below.
2 Peter 3:1-13KJV
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
The literal moon is an inanimate object, it can't be confounded, nor can the literal sun be confused BUT the spiritual versions of both of those can be.
Your claim that Daniels Abomination in Daniel 9:27 as referenced in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in the death of Jesus Christ is 100% false
As clearly seen below, the future littlehorn, The Beast, will be present until the consummation/The End and this didnttake place at the death of Jesus Christ
Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
As clearly seen below, the future littlehorn, The Beast, will be present until the consummation/The End and this didnttake place at the death of Jesus Christ
Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
I'm finding that NOT to be the case (for either of these).
I looked it up at BlueLetterBible, where it shows:
--"kingdom of heaven" - 32x (with one of those being "italicized" meaning not in the original text, but we'll count it anyway since you are "KJV1611" --and by the way BlueLetterBible *is* showing the kjv for these results [not a different version]: https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=kingdom+of+heaven&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 )
--"kingdom of God" - [says 68x BUT I counted the references shown there and it actually totals-->] 69x ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=kingdom+of+God&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 )
So, from what source were you getting your info? Just curious. = )
[as a side note, for the readers: in the Grk, the phrase for "kingdom of heaven" is ALWAYS put like "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (caps mine, for emphasis)]
I looked it up at BlueLetterBible, where it shows:
--"kingdom of heaven" - 32x (with one of those being "italicized" meaning not in the original text, but we'll count it anyway since you are "KJV1611"
--and by the way BlueLetterBible *is* showing the kjv for these results [not a different version]: https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=kingdom+of+heaven&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 )--"kingdom of God" - [says 68x BUT I counted the references shown there and it actually totals-->] 69x ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=kingdom+of+God&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1 )
So, from what source were you getting your info? Just curious. = )
[as a side note, for the readers: in the Grk, the phrase for "kingdom of heaven" is ALWAYS put like "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (caps mine, for emphasis)]