Catholicism vs Protestantism

[Nebuchadnezzer]

So you believe the man of sin is Julius cecar?
I don't agree

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with this. The man of sin is not one man!
It is a succession of men. It is the succession of Roman emperor that at some point transferred over to the succession of Roman Pontiff.

You yourself believe the Roman Pontiff will be the anti-christ. So if you believe this why can't you see that he arleady is the anti-christ. But you allow a man-made rule to govern your understanding.

The man made rule is this: You're only allowed one person, sorry!!! [finger-wagging]

 

[Jackson123]

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with this. The man of sin is not one man!
It is a succession of men. It is the succession of Roman emperor that at some point transferred over to the succession of Roman Pontiff.

You yourself believe the Roman Pontiff will be the anti-christ. So if you believe this why can't you see that he arleady is the anti-christ. But you allow a man-made rule to govern your understanding.

The man made rule is this: You're only allowed one person, sorry!!! [finger-wagging]

I agree the antichrist is pope, and not only one man, but Seem to me the man of Sin is the last antichrist or the last pope and Will,rule for 42 months only than second coming of Jesus

 

[crossnote]

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with this. The man of sin is not one man!
It is a succession of men.

Perhaps because of verses like these...
Revelation 19:20 (KJV) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Just a normal reading of the text, without using linguistic gymnastics, indicate one beast and one false prophet. Even Rev 13 reveals just one.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

So you believe the man of sin is Julius cecar?
I don't agree

I agree the antichrist is pope, and not only one man, but Seem to me the man of Sin is the last antichrist or the last pope and Will,rule for 42 months only than second coming of Jesus

On one hand the futurist view concedes that Daniel's 70th week is not literally one week but is actually seven years, but then they turn around and slam their fist and insist that 42 months must be a literal 42 months. Do you not see the double-standard in this way of interpreting?

The answer is that we cannot know if a day is a day, or if it is a year or if it is some other duration of time until we verify it in the historical record. It is written this way so the Bible cannot be used like a crystal ball.

Does this make sense?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Perhaps because of verses like these...
Revelation 19:20 (KJV) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast and the false prophet are titles. For example:

1) President of the United States is a title.
Based on the the name of the title are we to believe there has only been or ever will be one President of the United States? NO!

2) Sexiest Man Alive is a title. Has their only been one sexiest man alive ever? NO!

3) Most Valuable Player is a title. Has their only been one MVP, ever? NO!

4) Beast is a title. Has there only been one beast? NO! Daniel 7 alone says there were 4 beasts - However, there is one beast at a time. Just like there is one MVP at a time and just like there is one President of the USA at a time.

Jus like there is a succession of US Presidents and a succesion of Superbowl MVPs... There is also a succession of Beasts and a succesion of False Prophets.

Rev19:20 refers to the ending of the whole succession of beasts (imperial government).
Rev 19:20 Refers to the ending of the whole succesion of the false prophet (Pope, or false christian leader).
An analogy would be the NFL declaring that it will stop naming Superbowl MVPs for all time,

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I agree the antichrist is pope, and not only one man, but Seem to me the man of Sin is the last antichrist or the last pope and Will,rule for 42 months only than second coming of Jesus

Julius Caesar's Crossing the Rubicon, is considered the point of no return and happened in 49BC.
In 44 BC Julius Caesar was appointed dictator for life. According to history Caesar is not officially an Emperor but there is no question that his actions were instrumental in bringing about the Roman Emperor.

There was then a roman emperor until the sacking of Constanitople in 1204. Many historians consider this the real end of the Roman Empire.

49 BC + 1204 AD - 1 yr to account for no year zero = 1252 years.
1252 years converted back to 1252 days

1252 days / 30 days per month = 41.73 months.

We know that Christ rose on the third day which is equal in God's eyes to three days and three nights.

So we can conclude that 41.73 months is equal to 42 months.

Conclusion: Roman Empire existed 42 months.

On one hand the futurist view concedes that Daniel's 70th week is not literally one week but is actually seven years, but then they turn around and slam their fist and insist that 42 months must be a literal 42 months. Do you not see the double-standard in this way of interpreting?

The answer is that we cannot know if a day is a day, or if it is a year or if it is some other duration of time until we verify it in the historical record. It is written this way so the Bible cannot be used like a crystal ball.

Does this make sense?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Julius Caesar's Crossing the Rubicon, is considered the point of no return and happened in 49BC.
In 44 BC Julius Caesar was appointed dictator for life. According to history Caesar is not officially an Emperor but there is no question that his actions were instrumental in bringing about the Roman Emperor.

There was then a roman emperor until the sacking of Constanitople in 1204. Many historians consider this the real end of the Roman Empire.

49 BC + 1204 AD - 1 yr to account for no year zero = 1252 years.
1252 years converted back to 1252 days

1252 days / 30 days per month = 41.73 months.

We know that Christ rose on the third day which is equal in God's eyes to three days and three nights.

So we can conclude that 41.73 months is equal to 42 months.

Conclusion: Roman Empire existed 42 months.

Look at it this way. America's birth year is 1776 when we declared independence. But the revolutionary war did not end until 1783, and President Washington didn't take office until 1789.

Same way the Roman Empire really began when Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon River in 49BC , but the First emperor Augustus Caesor didn't take the throne until 27 BC.

 

[crossnote]

The beast and the false prophet are titles. For example:

1) President of the United States is a title.
Based on the the name of the title are we to believe there has only been or ever will be one President of the United States? NO!

2) Sexiest Man Alive is a title. Has their only been one sexiest man alive ever? NO!

3) Most Valuable Player is a title. Has their only been one MVP, ever? NO!

4) Beast is a title. Has there only been one beast? NO! Daniel 7 alone says there were 4 beasts - However, there is one beast at a time. Just like there is one MVP at a time and just like there is one President of the USA at a time.

Jus like there is a succession of US Presidents and a succesion of Superbowl MVPs... There is also a succession of Beasts and a succesion of False Prophets.

Rev19:20 refers to the ending of the whole succession of beasts (imperial government).
Rev 19:20 Refers to the ending of the whole succesion of the false prophet (Pope, or false christian leader).
An analogy would be the NFL declaring that it will stop naming Superbowl MVPs for all time,

Since when do ‘titles’ seek to be worshiped, perform miracles and deceive people?...

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9-10 NKJV
[3] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [4] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. [9] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [10] and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Jackson123]

The answer is that we cannot know if a day is a day, or if it is a year or if it is some other duration of time until we verify it in the historical record. It is written this way so the Bible cannot be used like a crystal ball.[/QUOTE

49 BC + 1204 AD - 1 yr to account for no year zero = 1252 years

So you don't know 42 month is real 42 month or you know It mean 1252 years?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

So you don't know 42 month is real 42 month or you know It mean 1252 years?

Yes, the 42 months in Rev 13 matches the historical record of about 1260 years for Roman Empire.

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, the 42 months in Rev 13 matches the historical record of about 1260 years for Roman Empire.

When this 1260 start, when ITS end?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Since when do ‘titles’ seek to be worshiped, perform miracles and deceive people?...

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9-10 NKJV
[3] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [4] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. [9] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, [10] and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The title itself does not seek such things, but the men who serve under the title do.

"the man of sin" or the "the son of perdition" are indeed titles.
The actions that follow these titles are actions taken by one or more men that bare the title. It is not made known the number of men who take this title.

I would say that even today the man of sin (aka Pope) has not yet been revealed. For you and most others do not see it.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

When this 1260 start, when ITS end?

49 BC when Julius Caesar Crossed the Rubicon River.

Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon river in January 49 BC precipitated the Roman Civil War, which ultimately led to Caesar becoming dictator and the rise of the imperial era of Rome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Rubicon


End in 1204 AD
Sack of Constantinople
That massive city had been besieged many times during the long waning centuries of its power, but its first capture in 1204 had greatly accelerated the Empire’s decline.
https://www.historyhit.com/final-fall-roman-empire/

 

[Benadam]

..protestants came out of the catholic church as they were PROTESTING against some of the corrupt practices that had become tradtions at the time like indulgences.

Indulgences aren't corrupt there were corrupt Priests that distorted what the Church taught about them so as to market forgiveness. If a person has unforgiven sin the indulgence doesn't work. Indulgences are for reparatíon no t forgiveness.

 

[Jackson123]

49 BC when Julius Caesar Crossed the Rubicon River.

Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon river in January 49 BC precipitated the Roman Civil War, which ultimately led to Caesar becoming dictator and the rise of the imperial era of Rome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Rubicon


End in 1204 AD
Sack of Constantinople
That massive city had been besieged many times during the long waning centuries of its power, but its first capture in 1204 had greatly accelerated the Empire’s decline.
https://www.historyhit.com/final-fall-roman-empire/

To my knowledge after antichrist administration, Jesus take over for 1000 years
Are we in 1000 years kingdom?

Don't you believe pope is the antichrist?
Is that mean pope No longer exist after AD 1204?
Why pope francis still there?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

To my knowledge after antichrist administration, Jesus take over for 1000 years
Are we in 1000 years kingdom?

Don't you believe pope is the antichrist?
Is that mean pope No longer exist after AD 1204?
Why pope francis still there?

Antichrist still here, therefore Jesus has not yet returned. The 1000 yrs has not yet begun.

Roman Empire ended 1204.
Roman Pontiff began in 330s AD and continues to present day. Roman Church is different from Roman Empire.

 

[Jackson123]

Antichrist still here, therefore Jesus has not yet returned. The 1000 yrs has not yet begun.

Roman Empire ended 1204.
Roman Pontiff began in 330s AD and continues to present day. Roman Church is different from Roman Empire.

I may misunderstood you, don't you Said antichrist is pope and rule for 42 month end in 1240.?

 

[Bede]

The first known occurrence of "Roman Catholic" as a synonym for "Catholic Church" was in communication with the Armenian Apostolic Church in 1208, after the East–West Schism... long before the Reformation.

The terms "Romish Catholic" and "Roman Catholic", along with "Popish Catholic", were brought into use in the English language chiefly by adherents of the Church of England.[

 

[Bede]

Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Those who do not know Him and are not known by Him worship a false god.

Depart from me I never knew you.....

So Paul, standing in the middle of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you (Acts 17:22-23)
Paul told the Athenians that the unknown god they were worshipping was the one true God.

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Those who do not know Him and are not known by Him worship a false god.

Depart from me I never knew you.....

I hear what you're saying, and certainly to worship God in spirit and in truth, a person must go through Jesus.

but I think it is possible for a person to worship that which they don't know
John 4:22 You worship that which you don't know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.